Starise
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Do You Monitor in mono ?
I have been reading the book " Secrets of Mixing For The Small Studio" by Mike Senior which is a great book. In this book ,one of the methods used to get a good solid mix is to make sure that your mix holds up in mono. He makes a great point in the book that the typical listener will almost never be in the stereo sweet spot. Many people will be listening to music in cars,at stores and at home from systems either playing in mono or from a stereo but far from the sweet spot. In addition to this,most of those systems won't be reproducing anywhere near the tones we can hear from our monitors. Most of the types of systems listened to will be more effective in the 150- 10,000khz range.
If we mix using only our studio monitors,we might put some of our EQ in a place that will cause those less expensive speakers to miss our mix.To make matters worse,the crossover designs seem to eliminate certain frequencies at the very places where the human ear hears the most...in the middle of the freq. spectrum.
Some answers to this have been mixing through basically a cheap sounding speaker and in mono,in other words, mix first on the main monitors and then compare several different situations.
Some engineers use a special speaker designed to eliminate the low frequencies and mix all of the mids on that speaker. Auratone was one of the companies making those speakers years ago, but now avantone has taken up the baton in making a similar product. For someone on a limited budget you could go with a copy called a behritone made by Behringer and not near the quality standard as Avantones.
Since I can take SPAN by Voxengo and collapse to mono through another buss or right at my master bus, I'm questioning the real need for a pair of Avantones . Why couldn't I put my master though a bus with a HPF and then collapse to mono? Wouldn't I get pretty much the same result? If I were to make a track set with the freq. bottleneck of an avantone speaker and then go to mono I'm thinking that this should be the same or am I missing something here?
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John T
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/07 12:38:20
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Yep, constantly checking for mono compatibility. My basic approach is: I do the actual *work* using my monitors. But I have connected at all times: a pair of cheap desktop computer speakers; a pair of nice headphones; a pair of crappy ear-bud headphones. I'm soon to be adding to this a pair of reasonably average hi-fi speakers. Constantly double check all these sources in both stereo and mono.
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John T
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/07 12:38:54
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Incidentally, you can collapse to mono natively within Sonar. Just click the interleave button on your master bus.
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Starise
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/07 13:11:33
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Thanks John. I should have mentioned that I planned to listen to the track on headphones so as to avoid those crossover problems. I already have a few pairs computer speakers and some mini stereo speakers. I can take amps and hopefully come up with something there.
Duh...I guess I can collapse to mono in Sonar,thanks!
I guess I should be more direct and say," Does a good engineer NEED to buy avantones?"It seems like there are alternate ways to get to the same place.
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John T
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/07 13:13:35
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I don't think so, no. I think having a range of headphones and speakers is good, alongside decent monitors, but I don't think it matters all that much what those other headphones and speakers actually are. You've already got the monitors for specifics, the other stuff is for seeing how well your mix travels.
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bitflipper
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/07 13:15:25
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Why couldn't I put my master though a bus with a HPF and then collapse to mono? Wouldn't I get pretty much the same result? You could get pretty close. You'd also need a low-pass. Use fairly steep filters (e.g. 18db/octave) with the -3db points set to around 200 Hz and 8 KHz respectively. There is more to monitoring on a single speaker than just being mono. Having a single driver means there is no crossover, for example, and no IM distortion from the interaction of woofer and tweeter. Auratone/Avantones are also closed boxes, so there are no port effects. So aside from the bandwidth limitations, single-driver speakers actually reduce the number and intensity of artifacts introduced by the speakers themselves. But mainly it's about eliminating the distraction of low frequencies so you can concentrate on the all-important midrange. We tend to spend most of our time trying to get the bass right, because it's hard to do. We should be spending most of our time on the mids, though. One commonly-employed trick is to take advantage of Fletcher/Munsen to simulate midrangey speakers by simply listening to them at extremely low volume. Listening from outside your mixing room is another technique.
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John T
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/07 13:35:07
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Yeah, going for a wander around during playback is really valuable.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/07 13:42:09
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You want to check the mono mix so that things are not canceling or causing other issues with phase.
But also in TV and film..... and radio..... you generally want your mix to be pretty centered.... or mono. If you got stuff panned wide, you can easily lose that side of the stereo mix depending on what you are listening on. AM radio for example is still pretty much mono. So commercials and the music in them must be mono or they can end up sounding weird.
Ever listen to the Beatles with just one side of the mix? On the Beatles box set remastered.... they use extreme 100% panning on quite a bit of their stuff.... to me it's uncomfortable to listen to it.
Always a good idea to hit the mono button periodically.
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Starise
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/07 13:55:37
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Thanks bit,John,Guitarhacker.....
Yes Bit, I forgot the avantones also roll off the high end , so I'll need to set that up in my track.
I collapsed a mix last night to mono and it seemed that all of the elements were there,but some volume went away and obviously the fullness is no longer there.
I like the idea of wandering during playback too...a great excuse to go to the loo or peel an orange or something.
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bitflipper
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/07 14:07:14
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Ever listen to the Beatles with just one side of the mix? On the Beatles box set remastered.... they use extreme 100% panning on quite a bit of their stuff.... to me it's uncomfortable to listen to it. That was actually a technical mistake on the part of some Capitol Records empty suit. The recordings were on 2-track tape but intended to be mono. Some tonedeaf dweeb thought it should be released as stereo. George Martin mentions it in his autobiography, how he was shocked when he first heard that travesty on his car radio while visiting Los Angeles.
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Alegria
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/07 14:49:29
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"Starise"
Since I can take SPAN by Voxengo and collapse to mono through another buss or right at my master bus, I'm questioning the real need for a pair of Avantones I recently purchased a single Avantone MixCube (Black) for approx. $240.00 USD. If anything, you should seriously consider this solution as I am in complete agreement with "Mike Senior". And if that wasn't enough to convince you, "Bit" is a firm believer in mixing to the midrange also. What more do you need?  
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codamedia
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/07 21:24:08
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bitflipper
Ever listen to the Beatles with just one side of the mix? On the Beatles box set remastered.... they use extreme 100% panning on quite a bit of their stuff.... to me it's uncomfortable to listen to it.
That was actually a technical mistake on the part of some Capitol Records empty suit. The recordings were on 2-track tape but intended to be mono. Some tonedeaf dweeb thought it should be released as stereo. George Martin mentions it in his autobiography, how he was shocked when he first heard that travesty on his car radio while visiting Los Angeles.
I always thought (or should I say "assumed") this was Sir George and the band experimenting with the toys of the day - I never knew it was a blatant mistake! Thanks for the education on this one 
Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take!
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/07 21:59:07
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bitflipper
Ever listen to the Beatles with just one side of the mix? On the Beatles box set remastered.... they use extreme 100% panning on quite a bit of their stuff.... to me it's uncomfortable to listen to it.
That was actually a technical mistake on the part of some Capitol Records empty suit. The recordings were on 2-track tape but intended to be mono. Some tonedeaf dweeb thought it should be released as stereo. George Martin mentions it in his autobiography, how he was shocked when he first heard that travesty on his car radio while visiting Los Angeles.
that explains it.... kind of a kick in the butt because the music is so good and the panning just ruins it.... and to top it off, they didn;t exactly give those box sets away.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Starise
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/08 12:32:20
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Alegria
"Starise"
Since I can take SPAN by Voxengo and collapse to mono through another buss or right at my master bus, I'm questioning the real need for a pair of Avantones
I recently purchased a single Avantone MixCube (Black) for approx. $240.00 USD. If anything, you should seriously consider this solution as I am in complete agreement with "Mike Senior". And if that wasn't enough to convince you, "Bit" is a firm believer in mixing to the midrange also. What more do you need?
" What more do you need?"...Not much maybe a little more money?  There is another product out there a friend mentioned called the Focusright VRM . I like what it seems to do with respect to multi monitoring. Really this discussion is twofold. Mixing in Mono and mixing in the center. You kill two birds with one stone by using something like the avantone. Merely collapsing a mix to mono won't accomplish mixing in the middle and mixing in the middle in stereo won't help you if the mix isn't mono compatible. I'm glad that avantone will sell one speaker. I am also in complete agreement with Mike senior,but I'm cheap and looking for an alternate solution if possible
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Alegria
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/08 14:05:40
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"Starise"
I am also in complete agreement with Mike senior,but I'm cheap and looking for an alternate solution if possible I hear you. But if you don't manage to find a reasonably priced alternate solution, I know you won't go wrong with that single Avantone. Good luck with your search.
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Rain
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/08 14:19:29
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Somewhat related... For anyone interested in nice M/S tools, check out Brainworx at Plugin Aliiance. I used to hesitate to recommend them, but now that they've dropped the dongle... ;)
They have a handy freebie called BX-Solo. It's big brother is called BX- Control. According to the website:
"This nice little M/S tool can be used for a wide variety of sophisticated applications: chain any stereo plug-in (even tools from other vendors) into the Brainworx M/S matrix , control the Stereo Width, or mono out bass frequencies of stereo signals with our unique Mono Maker tool.
bx_control V2 offers solo listening to M (mono sum), S (stereo difference signal), L (left channel) or R (right channel) phase-corrected and mono-ed on both speakers or "in place" with its four dedicated solo buttons, another Brainworx invention. Easily swap channels with its L/R flip button."
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/08 18:33:47
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Alegria
"Starise"
Since I can take SPAN by Voxengo and collapse to mono through another buss or right at my master bus, I'm questioning the real need for a pair of Avantones
I recently purchased a single Avantone MixCube (Black) for approx. $240.00 USD. If anything, you should seriously consider this solution as I am in complete agreement with "Mike Senior". And if that wasn't enough to convince you, "Bit" is a firm believer in mixing to the midrange also. What more do you need?
I listen in mono all the time as well. Alegria, I work in a bazillion dollar studio 2 times per week helping out a friend of mine. He just bought 6 of those MixCube's and I used one last week. Awesome little piece of kit there and well worth the price. However, I can't seem to find a need for it on my end and here's why. When I do the mono thing here, I click my stereo interleave on my master bus to mono, and then I pan that bus all the way to the right (or left) so I just hear through one of my monitors. It's the same thing as having MixCube really, only the difference is it's not in the "center" of my listening realm. Anyone that is just monitoring in mono while using both of their monitors is missing the big picture. It makes a huge difference to just use one monitor instead of both in mono. So to me, though I loved my MixCube experience, doing things the way I do them, I can't justify the purchase....but for sure you can't go wrong with one of those. :) Good luck with yours. :) If any of you are going mono and are using both monitors...kill one or do what I said above. It's a night and day difference with one monitor as opposed to both in mono. Try it...you'll hear what I mean. :) -Danny
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batsbrew
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/08 20:42:55
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ya know, i gotta say, i mix a lot... and i NEVER monitor in mono. i don't ever use 'stereo' inputs.... they're always mono. i pretty much mix LCR, with a few exceptions.... the few times i have bothered to go mono, i've never heard any issues. and my mixing is very consistent..... so, i just don't bother. so take my beer away.
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Alegria
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/08 20:58:32
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"Danny Danzi"
I listen in mono all the time as well. Alegria, I work in a bazillion dollar studio 2 times per week helping out a friend of mine. He just bought 6 of those MixCube's and I used one last week. Awesome little piece of kit there and well worth the price. However, I can't seem to find a need for it on my end and here's why.
When I do the mono thing here, I click my stereo interleave on my master bus to mono, and then I pan that bus all the way to the right (or left) so I just hear through one of my monitors. It's the same thing as having MixCube really, only the difference is it's not in the "center" of my listening realm. Anyone that is just monitoring in mono while using both of their monitors is missing the big picture. It makes a huge difference to just use one monitor instead of both in mono. So to me, though I loved my MixCube experience, doing things the way I do them, I can't justify the purchase....but for sure you can't go wrong with one of those. :) Good luck with yours. :) Nice to know that you have a good opinion about them. Another big advantage is the fact that their are no crossovers to deal with and are non-ported. I'm shopping for an articulated arm for optimal positioning when in use. Just another tool to help me help my mixes translate better. Did that make sense?!
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/08 21:38:00
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Alegria
"Danny Danzi"
I listen in mono all the time as well. Alegria, I work in a bazillion dollar studio 2 times per week helping out a friend of mine. He just bought 6 of those MixCube's and I used one last week. Awesome little piece of kit there and well worth the price. However, I can't seem to find a need for it on my end and here's why.
When I do the mono thing here, I click my stereo interleave on my master bus to mono, and then I pan that bus all the way to the right (or left) so I just hear through one of my monitors. It's the same thing as having MixCube really, only the difference is it's not in the "center" of my listening realm. Anyone that is just monitoring in mono while using both of their monitors is missing the big picture. It makes a huge difference to just use one monitor instead of both in mono. So to me, though I loved my MixCube experience, doing things the way I do them, I can't justify the purchase....but for sure you can't go wrong with one of those. :) Good luck with yours. :)
Nice to know that you have a good opinion about them. Another big advantage is the fact that their are no crossovers to deal with and are non-ported. I'm shopping for an articulated arm for optimal positioning when in use. Just another tool to help me help my mixes translate better. Did that make sense?!
Hahaha, yeah that made total sense. That's probably the only thing wrong with the way I do things and how that "Arm" thing you mentioned would help me. I have to position myself to the left or right monitor where it was nice to click a button and have MixCube come on right in the center. -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/08 21:38:05
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Oops....double post, so sorry. That's the first time that's ever happened to me...wow.
post edited by Danny Danzi - 2012/03/08 21:39:08
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IK Obi
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/09 00:55:39
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I monitor my mixes in mono all the time, at least 75-80% of the time.
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Guitarman1
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Re:Do You Monitor in mono ?
2012/03/09 23:43:05
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mono mixing is the way I start. to get levels for each track to be cohesive. If it sounds cohesive in mono, then I feel you are 30 percent done , when you switch to stereo.
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