iamnemo
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How to freeze *some* (not all) of the synths of a multi-out vsti synth engine (ARIA)
I currently have a problem: I am working with Sonar X1d Expanded on a symphonic piece using over 60 different instruments with their articulations, all Garritan sampled instruments played back on 4 instances of their ARIA player (a multi-out vsti plug-in). So each instance of the ARIA player is a 16-out synth capable of playing 16 different sampled instruments (tracks) in my score. On top each instrument uses a lot of different controller data to control attack, articulation and other parameters. As I am still running (SONAR and synths) on one machine (at the moment) I am starting to run out of juice and experience more and more drop-outs, even though I use almost no effects at this stage. To reduce the CPU load I tried to "freeze some MIDI tracks", i.e. freeze the synth outputs associated to these tracks. For example if I want to freeze all the woodwinds to work on brass and one of the brass instruments resides in the same instance of ARIA as any of the woodwinds I want to freeze, it will get frozen as well ! It doesn't take long to get all ARIA instances frozen. I would assume that "freezing" a (MIDI) track would simply render it to an audio track (mono or stereo) and then mute the associated MIDI data to free-up the CPU. It is a very convenient and reversible way (one click) to simply bounce to audio, I don't plan to edit the audio for now, only later while mixing. Does this make any sense? How would you attack this problem? Grouping similar instruments (e.g. woodwinds) on the same ARIA instance would apparently help but sometimes you need to freeze in a different order. In essence: what is the difference between "freezing a MIDI track" and bouncing its audio to track? It seems that freezing applies globally to synths and not to individual tracks using these synths but why is it so? It seems like such a useless limitation but I admittedly probably don't understand the technical difficulties associated with it. Thanks for any help in elucidating this question!
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vaultwit
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Re:How to freeze *some* (not all) of the synths of a multi-out vsti synth engine (ARIA)
2012/03/07 13:37:13
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☄ Helpful
From what I gathered, it seems like you want to freeze some (not all) of the outputs of a single, multi-out synth (if I'm wrong, disregarded the following information). Unfortunately, this is not possible as far as I know. In fact, I have the problem. I use SampleTank as my main sampler, and I have several tracks hooked up to a single instance of it. I would love to be able to freeze individual outputs from the SampleTank, but I don't think you can. If anyone does know how to achieve this, please let us all know!
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iamnemo
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Re:How to freeze *some* (not all) of the synths of a multi-out vsti synth engine (ARIA)
2012/03/07 13:53:36
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Yes Bob, you understood my problem perfectly and, sadly, have the same... Let's hope for someone to give us an alternative way to do it OR for Sonar developers to add this capability.
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garrigus
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Re:How to freeze *some* (not all) of the synths of a multi-out vsti synth engine (ARIA)
2012/03/07 14:01:07
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You can't use Freeze Synth for this task because as its name implies it freezes the entire synth (all outputs) so as to conserve CPU. If you're just trying to convert certain MIDI tracks to audio, you can do that by selecting the MIDI track along with the synth output track and use Bounce To Tracks. You can then mute the MIDI track. Scott -- Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks * Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://garrigus.com/?ProAudioTutor * Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://digifreq.com/?DigiFreq * Publisher of the NewTechReview free consumer technology newsletter: http://newtechreview.com/?NewTechReview
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:How to freeze *some* (not all) of the synths of a multi-out vsti synth engine (ARIA)
2012/03/07 14:08:06
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Or freeze everything and then just move the frozen tracks you want to a new audio track and adjust volume etc. on the new track.. Then you can unfreeze the synth and mute the tracks you moved to audio. Lance
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bitflipper
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Re:How to freeze *some* (not all) of the synths of a multi-out vsti synth engine (ARIA)
2012/03/07 14:23:12
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I get around this by having multiple instances of the sampler, still multi-timbral but with voices grouped by function. For example, I might use Sampletank/Miroslav for bass, guitars and strings; I'll implement it with two instances of the SampleTank player, one for strings and another for bass + guitars. This works well because I'll usually want to freeze all the string tracks as a unit, and still be free to fiddle with the other tracks. I know, SampleTank's a bad example because it's so efficient I often don't have to freeze it at all. But the principle also applies to Kontakt, which can suck up every last byte of RAM if you load it up with multiple libraries. My current project has 9 soft synths, including 3 instances of Kontakt hosting 8 libraries. A total of 18 software voices but organized into 9 sub-units that can be independently frozen.
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mcdroid
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Re:How to freeze *some* (not all) of the synths of a multi-out vsti synth engine (ARIA)
2012/03/07 14:51:16
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I have noticed this, too. There is a freeze track "widget" on every MIDI and Audio Track... but on a multi-out synth (such as EWQL Play - and others), freezing one MIDI or one audio track freezes the whole VST - not just the intended track. IMHO this is a BUG because the entire synth can be frozen from the synth rack view (other places, too?) and there'd be little reason for individual track freeze widgets which imply that using them should freeze their track ONLY. Thank goodness for the workarounds listed here and for real [multi-timbral] hardware synths! :)
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re:How to freeze *some* (not all) of the synths of a multi-out vsti synth engine (ARIA)
2012/03/07 15:06:48
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Its not a bug that the other tracks have freeze widgets. The widgets are provided for quick access to the freeze synth function. We could have let the function be accessed only from the synth rack but it would be less convenient that way. To "freeze" a single output just use the bounce function as others have suggested.
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SteveGriffiths
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Re:How to freeze *some* (not all) of the synths of a multi-out vsti synth engine (ARIA)
2012/03/07 15:36:19
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IIRC the Bounce to tracks also leaves the pro channel functional whereas freezing does not. I tend to equate the capturing of synth outputs with tracking of real world inputs e.g. vocals / guitars etc, so I prefer bouncing as it lets me break the workflow into tracking -> mixing -> mastering. Freezing is handy if you want to offload the CPU while tracking to capture other instruments. Cheers Grif
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:How to freeze *some* (not all) of the synths of a multi-out vsti synth engine (ARIA)
2012/03/07 15:56:47
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I too setup my instances of EWQLSO (Kontakt version) by instrument. My current - soon to be old - DAW can just about manage 14 instances of EW and I guess total articulations must be around 40-45. So, 1 for Violins, one for Cellos etc 0 you get the idea. Then I can freeze them by instrument as required. I'm about to freeze the lot and get into some proper mixing with it, and if I want to tweak the Midi a bit more, just unfreeze, tweak & re-freeze.
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iamnemo
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Re:How to freeze *some* (not all) of the synths of a multi-out vsti synth engine (ARIA)
2012/03/08 11:00:24
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Thanks to all for your insightful answers. I finally grouped my instruments' MIDI and Instrument tracks by family (e.g. woodwinds) in separate folders and fast bounced each of them in turn to tracks (thanks Scott!). It worked nicely but I still experienced audio dropouts. I was really surprised so I tried to mix down to stereo, mute every other tracks, and strangely still experienced dropouts!!! I then did a simple experiment: I just resized my Sonar window to one monitor (it was spread across four 2560x1600 screens before). No more dropouts... EVEN playing all 60+ tracks straight from the synths!!! That was a lesson: video updating (even with fast cards and latest drivers) can really kill your audio! Another lesson (and question): each bounce merged (and actually killed) the original individual tracks. Is there any way to prevent that? Thanks!!!
post edited by iamnemo - 2012/03/08 12:21:33
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