hellogoodbye
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Comparing 12 songs: plugin or ear?
Is there a plugin (included in Sonar 8.5 or otherwise freeware or otherwise payware...  ) that can be used to compare 12 wavs of finished songs? Comparing them by ear is so hard because once start listening to the third song you already forgot about the first one, so you are really only comparing two songs in a row, while I would like to compare them all... I need to compare the overall volume of them all and things like overall brightness and also if some basic instruments like the bass and base drum are a bit equal on all songs. Or do you guys simply do this all ONLY by ear? If so, how do you ever do that...?!? Comparing two songs is easy, but twelve...!  Maybe (probably) I should leave this to a mastering engineer, but money is tight right now...
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Comparing 12 songs: plugin or ear?
2012/03/16 03:01:00
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Why don't you just line them all up on a track and set up markers etc and simply jump around them and listen. Another approach is to put them on 12 tracks and use the solo facilty of your DAW to check them quickly. What I do when I master is to choose one song that seems to have everything in it. Great mix, great overall sound, there is always one that seems to stand above all else. I usually master that one first and call it my ref track. (At this point I also import a great mixed and mastered commercial track in the same genre as the ref track you are working on to compare to as well) Then when I master the others I import the mastered ref track and switch back and forth to that and compare the one you are currently mastering to the ref track. Then you will end up with all the others similar in level and tone etc.. I would not rely on plugins to asses the quality of your tracks. Your ears are better and it is good to train them up too. Don't master the day after you have mixed as well. Leave plenty of time between mixing and mastering.
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2012/03/16 03:02:32
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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jamesg1213
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Re:Comparing 12 songs: plugin or ear?
2012/03/16 07:25:53
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Jeff Evans
Why don't you just line them all up on a track and set up markers etc and simply jump around them and listen.
Exactly what I do. Just hop around in random order, you'll easily get a feel for the relative volumes.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Comparing 12 songs: plugin or ear?
2012/03/16 08:14:03
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I make a small database in Open Office (actually my wife sets it up for me... duh!) and then I use Adobe Audition to make an "amplitude analysis" of each file and note both the Peak and average levels.
I also makes notes about song key, tempo, and timings.
Then I use that very basic information to augment what I am hearing and what I hope to end up with.
For example; If I want a track to be quieter than all the rest I can figure out if it is or isn't while also understanding what has to happen with all the rest... etc. etc. etc.
I also am doing what Jeff and James speak of. I have all the songs sitting in CD Architect and I manage the project there. I'll go back to the .cwp projects and remix or re-export or I might just work with Adobe Audition on the 2 track. I just sort of bring everything together.
I find the amplitude analysis and note taking very helpful as it lets me think about 1dB increments which are hard to hear at the end of a working day.
best regards,
mike
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Comparing 12 songs: plugin or ear?
2012/03/16 08:26:40
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If I was going to do something of a technical measurement variety what Mike is suggesting is a good option. (thanks Mike for reminding me about that feature) I use VU meters and aim for all the tracks to be hitting the 0 db VU mark. (That 0 db VU mark can mean different things though. From unmastered levels of say -14 db FS right up to mastered tracks at -6 or -7 db FS)
I have found that quiet tracks ie guitar or piano and vocals usually sound about right when they only reach about -2 or -3 db on the VU's compared to the others. (they sound too loud if they too peak at 0 db VU)
The ultimate test is still to burn a CD and go for a drive in your car. I find that even slightly loud tracks will stand out too much or slightly quiet tracks will get a bit lost.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Comparing 12 songs: plugin or ear?
2012/03/16 08:40:27
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What Jeff said in post 2.
Having them all in tracks and using track view..... you can visually compare them....AND.... using solo you can compare them by ear.
That's easier than the Staples Easy Button.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Comparing 12 songs: plugin or ear?
2012/03/16 09:16:09
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The potential problem with comparing waveforms on one timeline is that the RMS value is hidden in the visual pattern that is meant to describe the peaking. It is so much easier to simply measure the RMS and figure out that/if/when know where your crest factor is or isn't consistent with the rest of the content. You can use your ears and VU meters to the very best advantage after you have a global and accurate understanding of what is happening in your project. all the best, mike
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bitflipper
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Re:Comparing 12 songs: plugin or ear?
2012/03/16 13:11:36
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TT Dynamic Range offline meter, if you can find it. Used to be a freebie, now they want a "donation". If you can't find that one, get Foobar2000. This (free) Swiss Army knife of audio should be a standard item in every audio toolkit anyway. Foobar can do a ReplayGain scan on any list of files and show you what the ReplayGain correction would be for each. Although the normal usage would be to use this to update MP3 tags, the scan works on any file format Foobar supports (which is just about everything), including wave files.
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hellogoodbye
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Re:Comparing 12 songs: plugin or ear?
2012/03/16 18:13:18
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Thanks all, some great tips here!!!  Foobar2000 sounds a bit like MP3Gain which I use to get all my mp3's on the same level: sounds interesting, I will check that one out. I once thought about using MP3Gain to get my tracks at the same level but it only works on mp3's... And the tip to put all wavs in one file to quickly compare them... why didn't I think of that myself...!
Sonar 8.5 PE, Edirol FA-66, Behringer C-1. All instruments in my songs are VSTi's.
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bandontherun19
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Re:Comparing 12 songs: plugin or ear?
2012/03/16 20:06:14
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