Guitarman1
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mixdown question
I have always mixed down a project to a stereo wav file. Then loaded that up into a stereo track to master. I just tried mixing down to split mono tracks.. but.. even if I pan those two tracks left and right.. I really don't hear that much of a stereo sound... so what is the normal way to do it? One stereo track mixdownm?
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bandontherun19
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Re:mixdown question
2012/03/16 22:00:17
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That's not how I do it man? You don't export your project as a stero .wav and then re-import that same file to limit it, EQ it etc... You effect your tracks and send them to buses. You effect your buses and send them to the master/main, then you effect and limit your mains.
Some others will export their buses as wavs and then master those in a separate file (stems) I use the former method, but my stuff sucks compared to some of the mix masters. But no one that I know of does it the way you've described above, unless I just completely misunderstood your process. Which is possible, if not likely.
1. Track
2. Bus
3. Main
There are things done at each step.
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ChuckC
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Re:mixdown question
2012/03/17 00:15:03
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Guitarman1,
The way you were doing it is fine, In fact it is the "proper" way if you will. Export in a stereo wave, then master that. I disagree with bandontherun on that one. Yes some do add their mastering processing on the master bus and do it all within one project but it is real best to learn to nail down the mix as it's own entity.
Burn a cd of that mix, check it on other systems and live with it for a few days, tweak and repeat. Once you have the mix right, mastering is that much easier and comes out better. Just like you should never try to take a bad performance and "fix it in the mix" (you should ideally retrack it) you should never trying to fix a bad mix in mastering. Keep them separate and you (or I least I am) get better at both independently which provides for a better end result. There may be some that have been in the game for so long they can do all at the same time but I don't believe that most people do, or should for that matter.
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bandontherun19
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Re:mixdown question
2012/03/17 00:28:14
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Indeed, there are many roads to the destination? However? There are highways? And there are backroads... I like the highway ;-) It's my way... But there are other ways to get there? I used to fight the system. I used to post and disagree with the 20 people who said, NOOOOO! Don't do that!! DO THIS?? For a good while, I fought that battle... Then I learned that the people with the good mixes, probably had the good ideas? But there are different ways to get from here to there. I just try to use the ways that the people who I respect use? Frank Tanton, best mixes on this sight. James Yoyo, best mixes on this sight. Many others... Many very talented folks... Listen to what they do? Learn how they do it. That's my motto. It's nothing against how others do it? Again, I say, find a sound you like? And try to get there from here. And There are more than one way? There are many ways to get from here, to there? So I try to keep an open mind. 1. Track it 2. Bus it 3. Send it to the main, where it's mastered... These are my recommendations, but it's not the only way to do it. It's not a bad way though :-)
post edited by bandontherun19 - 2012/03/17 00:34:46
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:mixdown question
2012/03/17 03:31:13
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@ ChuckC: IMO it's the mastered version, not the mix, that you need to go around with auditioning in different systems. It's the mastered version you want to compare with (other) commercial products
in order to produce good recordings.
Mastering inside the project does not necessarily mean direct export of the mix..
I do several mixdowns inside the same project. Then I have, say, five different mixes (stereo tracks) , one with hi-hat a little louder, one with snappy bass and one with a round one etc.
This way I don't need to go back to the mixing desk if one mix isn't satisfactory.
Then I use mastering FX in the master bus and export those mixes mastered.
Using this method I REALLY miss something like a "Project snapshot"-feature that would save the routing, volume, pan and FX settings of a project.
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timidi
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Re:mixdown question
2012/03/17 07:48:33
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Guitarman1
I have always mixed down a project to a stereo wav file. Then loaded that up into a stereo track to master. I just tried mixing down to split mono tracks.. but.. even if I pan those two tracks left and right.. I really don't hear that much of a stereo sound... so what is the normal way to do it? One stereo track mixdownm?
Guitarman. yes, "one stereo track mixdown". The split mono files (when panned) should sound identical to the stereo wav. It's not going to sound 'more stereo' if that's what you're after. I would use split mono only if I wanted to decrease the width of the mix.
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Guitarman1
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Re:mixdown question
2012/03/17 07:49:03
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I know everyone has their own pet ways of doing things. And what ever works for them is the way they should do it. But, I think my main question was sort of answered, but not fully.. is mixing down to split mono, actually producing a left and a right? I can't hear it. I thought, I would have better control over left and right by doing that, but, I am thinking going that way, just produces a dead center mono track twice.
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wizard71
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Re:mixdown question
2012/03/17 08:48:53
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What about the technique of converting the stereo wav file to mono, importing that and a stereo version to two seperate tracks and using the mono file at normal volume and adjusting the level of the stereo file to produce the width. Does anyone use that?
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Guitarhacker
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Re:mixdown question
2012/03/17 09:12:06
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99% of everything today is stereo. Use mono to check for phase cancellation issues but mix to stereo.
Both methods above are valid.
If you mix to stereo and export it to master the stereo wave, just be sure you are not using excessive (or much at all) FX in the project. Be sure the mix/balance of the instruments is spot on, and levels are adjusted correctly. AND... be sure to leave headroom for the final mix and pretty much have a dry mix. No verb.
The mastering will add the compression, the reverb and any final overall EQ.
The other option (which I tend to favor) is to mix and "master" in the box in the project. I add the eq/comp/verb in the tracks busses and master. So when I export my stereo wave..... it should be done, finished, ready for prime time.
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Alegria
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Re:mixdown question
2012/03/17 10:03:23
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99% of everything today is stereo.
"Excerpt from Mixing Secrets by Mike Senior" Is Mono Still Relevant?
But surely now that recordings, downloads, and broadcasts are all routinely in stereo, mono is only really relevant to a few grunting Neanderthals, right? Wrong. Although the majority of music is indeed now produced, sold, and transmitted in stereo, you might as well kiss goodbye to most of the stereo information in your mix once it’s been through the end user’s reception or playback equipment. Even for the most earnestly bearded hi-fi enthusiast, stereo imaging will still crumple into the nearest speaker if he shuffles out of the sweet spot and, frankly, I can’t actually recall ever having seen a home hi-fi system with anything worth calling a sweet spot anyway. Hands up—how many of you have acoustic treatment in your living room? Exactly. And how many of you have had the speakers banished by your flatmates to that corner under the side table, behind the plant? You’re lucky to hear the lyrics from most hi-fis, let alone any stereo.
Less fancy domestic playback systems fare even less well. The left speaker of your teenager’s hi-fi mini-system is far too busy holding the wardrobe door open to worry about stereo imaging, even if it weren’t accidentally wired up with inverted polarity. And it stands to reason that your web PC’s speakers have to huddle together at one side of the monitor to leave room on the desk for the phone. Furthermore, watching any TV from the sweet spot between its two built-in speakers is a surefire route to eyestrain. Maybe you can save the proper stereo experience for the kitchen boombox, building a custom shoulder harness to keep you securely between the built-in minispeakers while you peel those spuds and heat up the fryer? Perhaps not. (Are you even sure both speakers are working? My kitchen radio recently presented me with a version of “Yesterday” minus the strings.)
To be fair, earbuds are still something of a safe haven for stereo, but only if you resist the urge to share one of them with the person sitting next to you and you’re not one of the millions of listeners worldwide who, like Brian Wilson, suffer from one-sided hearing impairment.Move outside the home and the situation is no less dire. Consider the lengths to which shop and restaurant owners seem to go to avoid any risk of stereo imaging interrupting your retail experience. “No matter what anyone says,” says Allen Sides, “if you’re in a bar you’re going to hear one speaker.”6 Car stereo? I only know of one extortionately priced sports car that actually puts the driver an equal distance from the two speakers, so anyone else wanting a true stereo experience in the car will have to run the gauntlet of a potentially eye-watering encounter with the gear shift. But at least in these cases you have different speakers playing different things. Many other systems don’t even make a token stab at stereo! Things like telephone hold systems, band/club PAs, and shopping-center announcement systems all typically sum their inputs to mono before feeding any speakers.
FM radio receivers also often automatically sum the audio to mono in order to improve reception in the presence of a weak transmitted signal. With all this in mind, checking the mono-compatibility of your mix remains just as indispensable as it was 50 years ago, unless you’re unfazed by the thought of your audience being treated to a hideously imbalanced and comb-filtered version of your latest track during their weekly supermarket sweep.
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ChuckC
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Re:mixdown question
2012/03/17 11:52:31
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Hey hey now, for the record I was not trying to upset anyone or make anyone angry with me. There are no hard rules in audio (other than step over 0 and it will sound like sh!t). No offence intended, as I said there are folks that do what they do and achieve good results. I was just relaying what I have read, been taught, and learned. I did not mean to propose that any other method was a BAD WAY.
Everytime I had ever been in a pro studio with whatever band I was in at the time, they got the mix done exported and gave it to us. We then had it mastered by an ME in another facility (obviously not within the same project). Most commercial work is done this way too. So that is the method I have strived to duplicate.
To the OP, I apologize for not directly addressing the split mono method. I didn't because I have no experiance with it so I figured I'd leave that part for others to answer.
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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digi2ns
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Re:mixdown question
2012/03/19 22:33:43
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Im kinda lost in the explanation per the mono tracks. If things were panned in the mix and you broke the streo mix into seperate mono tracks, it should be fine. If you created two mono tracks from the mix, each track will most likely be identicle explaining the lack of differences.
My process at this time is,
Tracks:
pan guitars somewhat left and right as I feel good with for the song
pan bass slighty to one side
pan snare offset a little
roll toms left to right but not extreme
Drums Kick track, snare track, toms track and overhears are sent to their own buss so the kit can be controlled as one unit and other processing as necessary
I usually will have an acoustic guitar buss, lead Vox, back up vox, rhythm guitar buss, lead guitar buss. I can add proceesing at this stage as well.
When I like the mix I export that as a Mix track then create an entirely seperate project for Mastering where at this time I like to do Compression and EQ on the imported Mix track which is sent to a buss and limited. Then exported as a Master to be checked on different players/stereos.
Im in the process of learning as well but the Mono explaination up top kinda lost me or wasnt clear on how the individual mono tracks were created causing your problem
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Guitarhacker
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Re:mixdown question
2012/03/20 08:49:31
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I'm not saying mono is irrelevant.... But certainly most everything today is in stereo .... radio, ipods, TV... you name it...
Mono is useful as I said to check your mix. And if you are mixing for TV & radio you probably do not want a really wide stereo image anyway. There are still times that tune might end up on a mono music source, and the wide stuff will be missing some critical data.
I try to keep my stuff pretty much centered. Anything wide is normally duplicated on teh other side.... such as acoustic guitars..... recorded 2x and panned wide.... so no matter what side you hear, you have an acoustic on it.
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digi2ns
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Re:mixdown question
2012/03/20 09:13:50
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Guitarman1
I have always mixed down a project to a stereo wav file. Then loaded that up into a stereo track to master. I just tried mixing down to split mono tracks.. but.. even if I pan those two tracks left and right.. I really don't hear that much of a stereo sound... so what is the normal way to do it? One stereo track mixdownm?
What is this mix for? A complete song, a commercial, or ??? What is it intended play source-CD players, Radio, TV, ??? Im Lost, Just trying to see what each reply goes with what Im putting together in my head (Which isnt much LOL)
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John T
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Re:mixdown question
2012/03/20 09:22:19
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The importance of checking in mono is really underrated. It's not just applicable to when the track is playing back through a mono system. If you're on the other side of a room from your speakers, for example, the sound is going to be perceived by you as mono anyway. I'd go as far as to say the overwhelming majority of typical listening situations are essentially mono. Sounding good in mono should not be an afterthought, nor a simple compatibility check.
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