FXs Panning?

It might do, but you can use a plug like Channel Tools to place the reverb/delay exactly where you want in the stereo field.

Busses are stereo by default but I think you can change the interleave to turn them into mono

In a natural acoustical setting, even when an instrument is off to one side the reverberation emanates from all over. This is the model I prefer to use most of the time. Most reverbs spread the echoes in the panorama to emulate this effect. Some let you determine how much spread there is (e.g. in the Sonitus Reverb it's called "Diffusion"). If your reverb plugin doesn't offer this, you can use Channel Tools to narrow the image or shift it to one side.

Sometimes, though, you need to fabricate some width, especially on a sparse mix such as a single acoustic guitar and voice. There are a number of fun things you can do when the mix isn't too dense. 

For example, if you're using PerfectSpace you can modulate the pan over time, giving the reverb some interesting movement. Alternatively, you can automate the Channel Tools plugin to get the same effect.

Another fun technique is to reverse the panning of two reverbs, so that the left guitar's reverb is on the right and vice versa.

One more variation: place a delay in front of the reverb, set to 100% wet, with different delay values for left and right. Use this in place of a pre-delay. This will cause the reverb to kick in at different times on left and right channels, resulting in a different type of panoramic movement. Can be used as either a dramatic or subtle effect. Works particularly well on fat background vocals.

Some reverbs also offer a mid/side knob. This can either be used to create a delay that more centered or more to the edges. You might choose to use that for contrast (use a more cenetered one on left/right panned stuff and vice versa), or to keep the reverb in the area of the instrument more. There's no right answer. It either sounds like you want it to sound or it doesn't.

One trick, which I guess has been around since reverb was invented (in the tiled bathroom), is that a very diffuse reverb, with a pretty good amount of pre-delay, will create a really nice wash behind everything, which just gives everything some size, but with the reverb being delayed enough that it doesn't interact with the original signal. So you have both a pretty present instrument sound, but with an overall sense of size that doesn't call attention to itself.

The closer the reverb is in time to the sound, the more it interacts with the sound and changes it, generally making it sound more washed out (getting comb filtery presumably.) You might try to pan it away from the original sound but that only works when the person is listening in the sweet spot and in stereo. Sometimes that interaction sounds good of course. There's no right or wrong.

But a lot of those classic tunes that seem to have both nice sweet but present instrument sounds, but also seem to have plenty of ambience without it being obvious, I think are working this way. Sometimes it may not be (all) artificial ambience, but a nice sized and sounding tracking room with distant room mics. Every foot or so is about a millisecond of delay, so get them 20 feet away or more and that's the same as a reverb pre-delay that's sufficient to be nicely separated from the original sound.

I have to admit I usually apply reverb by just turning it up till I can just about hear it

Then of course you could always do that.


Sometimes you don't need to overthink it.

amiller


I use two mics to record my guitar leads to two tracks and then I blend their levels to taste and leave them centered.  But, what about the reverb and delay.  Do you guys use a stereo bus for the reverb and delay busses and if you route the guitar to those busses doesn't that sort of smear them left and right?

I think this is a great question. Here's how I do it. On some things, I like to put the effects right on the track because it gives you a different type of sound. For example, record a guitar track and then put a chorus on a bus and insert your send to that guitar. Listen to the sound. Then, kill the send and put the chorus directly on the guitar track.
 
In my opinion, effects on a bus sound like the guitar + effects. When you go on the track itself, it sounds like "an entity" and is different from the sound you get using the busses.
 
Now the most important thing in my opinion, is to pan your effects and eq them accordingly when in a bus. For example, if you just drop a stereo effect on a bus, that effect is equal to hard left/hard right. You may not want that effect panning out so wide. Let's take a look at a snare drum.
 
We have our snare centered in the pan field. If we create a bus, drop a verb on the bus and insert the send on the snare track, that verb is going to make the snare sound way wide due to the effect you use. We really don't want a snare verb splashing out that wide. So, you place a sonitus phase plug on the bus and control the width of that snare drum so it stays within the kit like it should be. Depending on which verb you put on the bus....you should always eq the verb either on the bus itself or if the verb has high pass or low pass controls...use them.
 
The placement of your effects and the eq you have on them are as important as eqing and panning your actual tracks. Ever notice that sometimes you have a good mix going on, you put on a few effects and it gets a little muddy or less clear? The reason for this is lack of eq on your effects and proper panning of the effects. I have a Sonitus Phase or a Waves S-1 on all my effects busses so I can control just how far my effects go and I always eq them. The low end in a verb or a chorus can kill you. A delay that sounds exactly like your guitar tone when it bounces back can get lost in the mix as well. It's nice to change up the sound of the delay so you can hear it in the mix.
 
This also allows you to use less effect because you have removed the problem frequencies that make the effects mud up. You also have good results with controlling how wide they spread because it's like your tracks...if you pan everything hard left and hard right....it's not going to sound good. This is why panning makes such an impact in music...and how going too wide can make your mix lose impact and sound too separated. When you pan your effects up and eq them, they literally enhance your tracks for the better. Hope this helps a bit...best of luck. :)
 
-Danny

Rimshot


Good points from all.  Danny, I think you would agree that the use of reverb really depends on what the desired effect should be.  For most of my work, I start with the best sounding reverb for the project overall.  I then use it sparingly to add depth and unity to the mix but still try hard to keep it simple and clean. 
For a lot of rock and blues mixes, more reverb and different reverbs (one for drums, another for vocals for example) help out. 
Overall, using reverb does not have to get as complicated as one might think unless there is so much going on that specific steps should be used to reduce content.  Your examples of phasing and rolloffs is good in this light. 

For much of the studio work I did in the 70 and 80's, many times only one reverb unit was used for the whole song.  In many cases, the ambience of the room and mic techniques helped alot.  Remember how much of the early Beatle's reverb was actually using a live echo chamber.  In my experience, the more natural effect or natural sounding effect used with care will achieve a good overall result.  For heavier and more dramatic mixes, where you really are going for effect, you will need to control it or the mixes will be undefined and dull. 

Rimshot

I think it depends what school you come from. I use different verbs or impulses for everything to create my atmospheres. But I wasn't just talking about reverb...I'm saying effects in general. And there's really nothing complicated about controlling how wide an effect will pan as well as how the color of it can be controlled via eq. Why throw a stereo effect on a bus and just allow it to spread 100L/100R? There's no reason for everything to have effects that stretch from one side of the stereo field to the other.
 
See man, the fact of the matter is, we have power pc's today and can run several instances of effects without a hitch. There was a time where 3 verbs could cripple a system and you created a bus and used that verb on everything. But today, because we have more power...people utilize that power and if they add a bunch of stuff without creating a space for those effects and eqing them properly, it can become a mess. My rule of thumb is...I wouldn't record an instrument without eqing it to some degree...even if I just high passed or low passed it...I will do the same to my effects. They need to be eq'd as well. Try using a chorus without eqing it on a guitar...then eq it FOR that guitar and see how much better it sounds.
 
The other side of the coin is, I sincerely believe rooms are less important today than they once were. I know, that sounds like a bogus statement to make, but let's look at the big picture. We can basically record in a closet today and get great quality if you know what you're doing. One would then argue "yeah but you can't record drums in a closet" which would be true, but most of the major label stuff you hear isn't using a full REAL drum kit either. Samples are used all the time and just about every major studio I've worked in has a drum kit ready to go with DDrum triggers as a safety net that get used at all times.
 
Add in really good impulses and some parallel compression and no one is going to tell whether a real room was used or not. It's just not as important as it once was in my opinion. The days of the John Bonham drum kit are gone other than Alex Van Halen...and his drum sound is pathetic these days. Roomy and dull with no life...hyper compressed so that his cymbals sound like they resonate forever. I could mic up a cardboard box and get his snare drum sound....and if I fell short, I could use a Drumagog sample at about 26% along with that cardboard box and I'd get it.
 
Also, the use of effects is pretty genre specific these days. With rock it's all about loud and compressed. Try mixing a country tune. Most of them are loaded with effects on everything and I for one, absolutely love that they're like that. I get bored of using compression alone and very small impulses on rock stuff. It bores me to tears and has nothing but stale, dry impact. But country, there's a nice challenge with incredible instrumentation that allows you to color it and flavor it the right way. An engineers dream...he can actually use some cool effects for a change other than compression! :)
 
Ever hear someone critique a mix and say "you used too much verb" and ask the person why they said that? They'll just about always answer "because I could hear it" which to me is totally lame. If I didn't want to hear an effect in my mix, I'd simply not use it. For some dumb reason people feel it's a no no to use effects to where you can hear them. When done correctly with the right musicians and sounds, as long as you're not swimming in effects to where the music becomes cloudy, use as much as you want...it sounds great...end of story in my opinion.
 
I love country music because of that. They aren't afraid to use verb on a drum kit or a gated verb on a snare or a chorus on a guitar. It sounds great to me. I love processed sounds and let me tell you, it's not easy to make all that stuff work to where it sounds processed yet clean. This is another reason why people cry about it...they simply can't get it right so for everyone else, it's too much and "the wrong way to do it".
 
I agree...natural effects are cool and have their place. But again, that's not always going to sound good on a modern rock or a death metal piece where the instrumentation is in your face and non-ambient. That's another thing that needs massive amounts of control just like effects...and that is, the room. Quite a few people don't pay enough attention to how they take care of their room mics. It's an effect...so it needs to be treated the same way in my opinion. Eq'd, compressed and spread controlled. It can make or break a sound. This is why I prefer impulses. If a room I'm working in sucks, there are numerous ways I can try to make it better with blankets etc...but there comes a time to where you can't do any more. So close mic'ing is your friend. You can still grab some of the room, but it's nice to have a good up-close sound capture that doesn't rely on the room. This way, if the room mic's aren't giving you what you want due to a crappy room, you have the main capture and can just run impulses on it and manipulate it any way you choose.
 
I have a rather strange scenario I throw at my students that come here for workshops when we talk about natural vs. effects. It makes them laugh because it's funny...but it's true. I tell them....
 
"If I brought a super model in and had her get naked for you right now, you'd appreciate the killer body. The impact would get you for the first 15 minutes and you'd check her out until you said "ok, I get it." If we brought that super model out in an array of different clothing from all different styles...from sexy to gowns, swimwear, business, playful etc...it ****es things up in a way that her nakedness does not."
 
Naked is great...c'mon, I'm a guy...but realistically speaking, the ****e in this model is what she wears. That's her "effect". She's "colored" and "processed" and can wear many hats in many different situations. Naked, she has 3 options...around the house, in a shower and at a nudist colony....and it's the same natural body all the time. With clothes, her personality changes for each new thing she puts on. I like colors....I like change, I like loud, I like soft, I like vibrant, I like impact, I like polish, I like enhancement....follow me?
 
Natural doesn't give me that. It's great...we need the most natural sound we can get...but to leave it "naked" like that is just to me...dull and boring...same old same old...drums in a room type thing. Compress that snare and kick the right way, remove some of the room, make the instruments snap and have character. I like processed...it may be a bit synthetic to some, but it adds character, color and can totally change the way something sounds by having the best of all elements. :) So to me, effects are a bit more complex and complicated because I paint with them to the point of sound alteration and enhancement. To many others, it's over-kill...to me, it's art and what makes my mixes, "my mixes". :)
 
-Danny

Man, I love this stuff!  What a great wealth of knowledge...kept it coming!

Hi Rimshot,

I'm terribly sorry if my post came across as a debate...that wasn't really my intention. I just have a thing about room discussions because I sincerely believe that though it is important, it's not a necessity that today's home recording guys need to worry about. We've all heard incredible recordings that were done in crap rooms, living rooms, offices, tight spaces....I just don't think it's worth stressing about. I also wanted to further elaborate on some of the stuff I had mentioned in the event you may not have understood where I was coming from. Sorry if it came out wrong man.

-Danny

Rimshot


Hey Danny, no problem.  I was hoping we weren't going to go back and forth on this.  I really appreciate and respect what you do and how you share your thoughts and I try to do the same although I can't find the words you do.  You are right about home recording but there really is a huge difference when you go to a pro studio that has invested a fortune in the design, structure and ambiance.  I played in most of those studios in L.A. for many years.  I have also seen what other Cake users have done in their studios.  If you saw my "space" you would really LOL because I'm in my dining room!  Anyway, good words and thoughts.  Have a great weekend.  I am playing with the new PC2A.  

All the best.

Rimshot

Even if we did go back and forth....we'd do it peacefully and both learn from it. I too respect what you've had to offer past and present as well as your experience brother. :) Totally with you on the above comments. Nah, I never laugh at spaces....we make due with what we have. The challenge of that makes you a better engineer down the road really. When you get in a GOOD situation, you see how much easier it is...but even in a good situation, you may have to revert back to something you uncovered in one of your little cramped, crappy room endeavors and you know just what to do. LOL! The space at my house isn't good at all. 12x12 man cave....video games, guitars hanging off the walls, keyboard, drum kit...racks of gear...how I fit it all in here is unreal. I have about 4 ft of space around me. LOL! The good thing though..all I have to do is turn my chair and I have a bunch of weapons at my disposal. Hahahaha! But the room works. I've mic'd drum kits here, guitar amps, mixed, mastered etc. It's nothing like my real studio rooms, but it definitely works and I've always had really good results here. Anyway...you have a good weekend too man...enjoy the PC2A! :)
 
-Danny