"Slightly" OT?

To be honest, if I was not a drummer as my first instrument, I do not think I would record a single song on my own without paying for someone to do it or I'd just be using repetitive loops over and over.

My hat goes off to you guys that program these things from the ground up. I really have respect for all that goes into that. I've programmed drums about 10 times in my life. The 10th time was the last time. The only other thing more boring and un-inspiring thing worse than programming drums is hot-roofing. LOL! No offense to you roofers out there...you're underpaid the second you step on that roof with that hot stuff...sheesh! I don't know what's worse...masonary, roofing or programming drums...I have done them all and hate them all almost equally. Scratch that...programming drums is the worst because you don't make a dime doing it and you frustrate the heck out of yourself. LOL!

As for single tracks, thankfully I don't have that problem. Most of my tracks take about an hour or two depending on how long the song is as well as how difficult it may be to play. But usually anything over 2 hours is....you guessed it...drums....even though I play the darned things! :)

I actually used to do lots of this stuff for people on the net for free. Fortunately for me, my business took off to where I no longer had the time and performing various instruments for hire is a part of my business. You'd be surprised how many people are in need of drums, bass, guitar, vocals etc....and are willing to pay for it because of this time consuming frustration.

I'm not mentioning that as a proposition to you or anyone else honest, but when in need or frustrated...try a friend....when really in need and frustrated and you want pro sounds and playing...try a pro and let that person make it worth while for you to where it justifies the purchase. It really can make a difference in the sound of your material as well as having a top notch performance for your song. Fortunately for most of the Sonar forum, there are many members that will just hook you up. I sure wish I could as I miss doing that sort of thing...but what do you do, turn away from a huge paying job in this economy, or cut a drum track for 3 hours for someone for free? LOL! If I had the time...I'd love to be the go to Sonar forum guy if anyone needed anything. Maybe someday. :)

It's really a tough situation to be in. I feel for you as there was a time where I was in your position. Sometimes it frustrated me so much I didn't even want to finish anything. Other times, the incredible inspiration helped me to get through it. Man, I literally have songs with over 700 guitar takes in them...drum tracking for 8 hours...vocal takes that were over 1000 takes between leads and back ups. But thankfully, this process was a style thing. It wasn't that I sucked (ok, sometimes I sucked and had some horrible takes) it was because I heard a certain sound or performance in my head that I wanted to get right. 700 takes on something could be 5 seconds on the end of a solo where I wanted a certain sound of a note to ring out just right. Other times, a certain kind of feedback...a certain vocal delivery, a drum lick.

But it hasn't been a performance thing for me since I was about 17. I'm really thankful for that because I hear how people are pulling their hair out with stuff like this and I truly do feel for them. It's not a fun position to be in. Then once you get all your instruments the right way, you work on the mix for a month or longer too, right? Ugggh...I soo don't miss those days.

As for the mental illness, most definitely it is for me. I call it anal perfectionist syndrome. This is an illness that is in your head. You played the thing well on the first take but to YOU it wasn't good enough. People in the room that may hear the different takes will shake their heads and not be able to tell take 1 from take 361. But...sadly, you can. You can pinpoint the differences and explain them in full. They'll look at you and go "what?" But still, it haunts you and digs at you. You just can't accept that take because one little thing is wrong with it...and though you kinda know no one but you will notice, it digs at you until you try to fix it and then mess it up worse than it was before...and then you can't come close to playing it even remotely close to the way that was semi-acceptable. Sound familiar?

The other side...and this hurts...but...some people just don't have it. They try hard, they give it their all, but they just don't have it and will not accept defeat. This does make them better, but if you don't have the right skills or frame of mind to begin with, you just sort of spin your wheels and experiment to where...sometimes you eat the bear, but most times the bear eats you.

Simple answer really. If I'm frustrated about something to where it is detering my progress or killing my desire, I have three possibilities.

1. I work on my weak areas. If you're lazy or possibly don't have the time due to family etc, you already lost. Be a family man...it's more important these days than a little hobby. Especially if you have kids. This is an evil world...they need all the help, guidance and support you can give. But if you can spend some time honing your weak areas, you will definitely be in better shape when you try to perform something and it will get faster and faster over time. Just remember, the way you practice something is the way you play. Bad habits in your practice routine are extremely hard to break. So make sure you practice properly and work on your weak points while maintaining your strong points.

2. Ask for help in areas where you may be lacking. If it takes sending work to friends, paying someone to do something or someone to teach you something, how bad do you want it? Don't have the money....revert to number 1.

3. Walk away from it for a few days or a few hours. Sometimes a break or a small leave of absence makes a world of difference. You come back fresh, strong, your batteries are charged...and you may not make the same mistakes you'd make when you're burnt out or working on something for too long.

If you want something bad enough, you have to get it. When I was in bands, we always needed a singer. I was used to always being the guy that would wear multiple hats. I was a drummer in my first few bands. One day we needed a guitarist....there were plenty of drummers to choose from...so we got a drummer and I learned guitar on my own. We needed a bassist...same deal, and so on. After a while, I was fortunate to be fair at playing several instruments. To this day I'm not proficient at anything but I can fake my way through and get the job done in just about any style. Add in that I've been at it over 30 + years and you just get better at it. But one day, we needed a singer. I was just a back up guy...there was no way I could sing lead. Tried it for a while.....man was I bad. It was so hard! Constantly runinng out of breath...sore throats...not being able to talk after singing 2 songs.

Then some vocal lessons...and then I could sing 4 songs and then lose my voice. Then 5 songs, then 6, then an entire set worth. I remember having a micro cassette player with me every day when I was a truck driver. I sang every single song I knew the words to all day long and recorded them for 3 years. Yep...3 years worth of little cassette tapes with me singing over and over and over....The Star Spangled Banner, Oh Susana, Hey Jude, Don't Stop Believin, Some kind of Wonderful etc. 3 years of this! LOL! The cool thing was...one day, I compared my first few cassette tapes....and then the latest. I actually was sounding like a singer. The work was paying off...the lessons and use of my diaphragm (no not that diaphragm...shessh you guys!) was paying off...breathing techniques and airflow...going in and out of my headvoice...the list goes on and on. But this was a challenge to me. Unlike all the instruments I had ever tried to learn which thankfully came sort of easy...this vocal thing did not. So if you want it...go for it man and approach someone that is qualified to help you. You may get the help for free...it may cost you...whatever the case, definitely try to do something about it for the better or the frustration never goes away.

Sorry for the novel/pep talk...I know it probably wasn't needed and is too long for you to even read....but others that may be in this position may get something out of it. Best of luck.

-Danny

An other 'no' here Robby..I really don't have the patience for that, and if I spend to long on any part of the song, the whole thing will become a bore anyway. I know I'm never going to fool anyone with the drums I have at my disposal, so 'near enough is good enough' I'm afraid.

Picking up from what Jon says above, maybe some basic drum lessons would prove helpful.

What I'm getting at is that I believe there aren't just two different kind of drums, i.e. 'real' and 'programmed'.  I consider there are actually two different kinds of 'programmed' - those programmed by drummers and those programmed by the rest of us. I've had the privilege of playing on songs with Jon's so-called 'fake' drums and to my ears, it's more a case of aesthetics more than quality.

Drummers know 'drums', it's as simple as that. and their programmed drums always sound better to me than 'layman's' drums. I suppose that is why there is such a huge market for good quality loops and patterns.

So maybe learning how to think like a drummer might go some way in helping one to programme like one?

I'll never attemp to program drums. I'll take live drums any day even if I have to play them myself. 

You may want to consider meeting other musicians in you area that would love to help you.  

As a young drummer a long time ago, I got involved in many groups, shows, jams that eventually led to recording.  I am sure there are drummers or other musicians that can program drums that would love to work on a song, get a CD of when it is done and build their own portfolio.  Hang some posters at the high school and local music stores.  You just might find someone looking for this kind of project.  It doesn't have to be about $ either.  It's about learning and sharing.  

You do a good job of drums on your own stuff.  I just listened to a number of your songs and you are doing fine. Don't stress about it.  Have fun.  I am doing mostly finger drums now (playing on the keys while triggering either SD3 or BDFEco.  Then I edit it until I am satisfied.  

Best to you.

Rimshot

I used to spend two weeks to record a 20 second guitar solo in the analog days.  Then digital recording comes along, and I discovered comping.  Now I can take 20 seconds to record a two week part.