Helpful ReplyRadio friendly sounds - tips

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jrestrick
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2012/03/31 13:29:10 (permalink)

Radio friendly sounds - tips

Hi,
I was wondering if anyone would be able to give me tips on how to get a radio friendly sound using Sonar.  Sometimes when I'm recording it can sound like a wall of sound rather than everything being crisp and 'finished' sounding.  Does anyone have particular things that they do when mastering a track?  I've been sticking my nose in the books, but was hoping people may be able to point me in the right direction.
Ta
James
#1
batsbrew
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Re:Radio friendly sounds - tips 2012/03/31 13:59:02 (permalink)
the best thing you could do, would be to purchase a well-known book about mixing.

there are several.

The Mixing Engineer's Handbook (Mix Pro Audio Series)


Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio 


Mastering Audio, Second Edition: The Art and the Science




i highly recommend any/all of these.


make no mistake, pros spend a lifetime getting good at it.


if you're serious, start mixing today, and don't expect anything super good for a couple of years.



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#2
chuckebaby
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Re:Radio friendly sounds - tips 2012/03/31 15:47:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
books are the way to go for sure,but theres one thing they cant do.give you the full effect of learning by trial and error,the best cure is to learn by mixing and listening.first this is where to start.pop in a cd of an artist listen carefull and try to pick out the instruments,then try to understand what kind of effects are on these instruments,then try to realize these songs have been mastered and some of the ear learning process is lost.
another thing to keep in mind is that songs you hear on the radio are boosted with compression to fill up every once of bandwidth you are recieving from signal,thats why of course every station sounds a little different then the next,some do sound the same,but some like kiss 108 pound their low end to no tommorow.some, like the metal stations use alot of higher to mids.
listen then mix your sound to sound equivelent to what your hearing(remeber this is only an experiment)signal to noise ratio is of the upmost,to low and you get hiss,to hi and you will distort.
go on the lower side because after your done making a stereo recding mix down,try to import that stereo mix back into sonar only this time your going to master it.and make another two track recoding for final listening.this is where you can do many things dude.everyone mixes and masters differently,i just gave you the 3 paragraph tutorial..theres been threads written on what i just explained,so this is just the guide.no go learn...lol

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#3
Rain
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Re:Radio friendly sounds - tips 2012/03/31 16:05:15 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
batsbrew


the best thing you could do, would be to purchase a well-known book about mixing.

there are several.

The Mixing Engineer's Handbook (Mix Pro Audio Series)


Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio 


Mastering Audio, Second Edition: The Art and the Science




i highly recommend any/all of these.


Haven't read the other ones just yet, but Mixing Secrets is indeed an awesome book.

TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
#4
batsbrew
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Re:Radio friendly sounds - tips 2012/03/31 22:22:02 (permalink)
rain-
yes, it is.
and the real point i was trying to make, is it's worth the time to READ established mixing guides when you're first starting out, to shorten the learning curve.

you can learn everything first hand for sure.

but why would you want to do that?
there is such a wealth of information out there, to teach you things that learning first hand would take literally years.




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Bats Brew albums:
"Trouble"
"Stay"
"The Time is Magic"
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#5
batsbrew
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Re:Radio friendly sounds - tips 2012/03/31 22:23:05 (permalink)
the most important part of my post:


if you're serious, start mixing today



Bats Brew music Streaming
Bats Brew albums:
"Trouble"
"Stay"
"The Time is Magic"
--
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#6
bitflipper
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Re:Radio friendly sounds - tips 2012/04/01 01:00:18 (permalink)
1. Don't overcompress

2. Nothing over 15KHz matters

3. Don't overcompress



All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#7
Danny Danzi
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Re:Radio friendly sounds - tips 2012/04/01 06:58:36 (permalink)
Though I'm not downing the book thing, my belief and experience is, they just don't show you things that matter in YOUR world all the time. I have about 30 students I am curretly teaching recording right now using Sonar. If you asked ANY of them if they felt they were wasting their time with books, I'd bet my farm just about all of them would say the exact same thing which would be "yes we did". The problem with books....it's on "the author's gear" not yours. It's using hardware or some other plugin that a new person in the audio field most likely will not have. They get too deep and go astray...they intimidate...they hover and can easily lose the person that wants to learn.

To be a teacher, one must be able to communicate with people and work with them in a way that best suits that individual. A book will not and can not do this. You can grab a few tips and tricks from books...or buy something created specifically for Sonar using the tools that come with it. But me personally, I'd say I disagree with the book method for someone new to recording or even semi-experienced. Quite a few of the students I teach are super intelligent. More so than I am to be honest. They have patience...and can read these books like they are going out of style. Me, I can't sit with an owners manual for more than 20 minutes. So that tells you about my book reading habits. I can't tell you how many of my students have mentioned "I read these books, I bought these videos, I did this, I did that, I am a member on this website, that webiste...but when I went to Danny, it all changed and I learned about this stuff."

That's not a ploy for you or anyone else to hit me up, honest. My point is, it's in HOW you teach a person about this stuff that matters. If I didn't treat each student like a Doctor treats patients with different issues and just sent out a uniformed video series, they don't learn like they do when I create custom videos for them based on their needs, their level, their curiosity and above all, it gets delivered in a language they can understand using tools that they already own. No book will show you that. One size fits all is NOT the key to learning this stuff in my personal opinion as well as my professional opinion and experience. The books mentioned are all great reads that can help some people...but they can also intimidate and hinder the performance and desire of others. So read away....but just be careful because 9 out of 10 times, what you have isn't what they have. Though the techniques you learn may be the same, there are differences based on the gear used that can either be a huge difference, confusion, or a subtle to no difference at all situation.

Want to learn Sonar and cool things you can do with it, look up Scott Garrigus or Craig Anderton. If you are going to read, read about guys that know Sonar and will teach you on what you already own. Just my opinion though. Whatever works best for an individual is what they should go with.

-Danny

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#8
Alegria
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Re:Radio friendly sounds - tips 2012/04/01 09:52:22 (permalink)
"bitflipper"
2. Nothing over 15KHz matters for old folks like me...

Fixed.  
#9
The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Radio friendly sounds - tips 2012/04/01 09:57:51 (permalink)
Alegria


"bitflipper"

2. Nothing over 15KHz matters for old folks that know how tweeters work... like me

Fixed.  


fixed  8-)  :-)


#10
spacealf
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Re:Radio friendly sounds - tips 2012/04/01 10:18:44 (permalink)
  If you have speakers that go over 15,000, then you must also have woofers that go to the lowest frequencies also. For 15,000 Hz you need the low end to go to 33 Hz in a Hi-Fidelity Speaker System. If you have a speaker system that goes to 18,000 then you must have the low end go to 27Hz. This is the rule, this is what a Hi-Fidelity Speaker System is. As for radio friendly, FM goes from 50 to 15000Hz transmitted.
post edited by spacealf - 2012/04/01 10:20:06

 
 
#11
The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Radio friendly sounds - tips 2012/04/01 10:24:34 (permalink)
It's easy to have tweeters that go way, way over 15k.

It's almost impossible to disperse that energy evenly across a room in such a way that maintains phase coherency or consistent SPL.

After you consider that it's there alright, but it's all messed up, and not contributing to an accurate portrayal of the "image", you may decide it isn't really a great benefit for it to be there.


best regards,
mike



#12
bitflipper
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Re:Radio friendly sounds - tips 2012/04/01 10:45:20 (permalink)
The topic is about radio. FM broadcasts are limited to 15KHz.  In the U.S., AM broadcasts are limited to 10KHz.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#13
The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Radio friendly sounds - tips 2012/04/01 10:52:33 (permalink)
nuff said.

:-)

I'm back on topic.


#14
Guitarhacker
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Re:Radio friendly sounds - tips 2012/04/01 14:33:44 (permalink)
Nothing below 10hz matters either....


But.... my advice, in addition to what has already been said....

The advice given to simply start mixing is spot on. Reading give you the theory and proper practice......but getting a real mix on the DAW is the thing that makes you actually have to  apply it and learn it. 

Once you have a mix you think sounds good, post it for everyone to hear in the songs forum. we have some folks here with really good ears, and the knowledge to be able to tell you in a concise manner what seems to be wrong, or right in the mix. 

This is one of the learning tools that I have consistently relied on through the years I have been here to help me learn and tweeze my mixes to be the best they can be given my skill level. 

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