TerraSin
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Frustrations with tempo and audio snap
So I'm working on my first EBM style remix style. Completely different genre than what I'm use to working with. I'm having some major issues though which have literally been driving me up the wall lately and it seems I'm not the only one having these issues and that it's been going on for quite sometime. Basically what I'm trying to do is something that should be very simple with a few very quick and easy steps: I'm trying to find the tempo of a song from an imported clip. Here's the process I've been trying and maybe I'm just being stupid and making it more difficult than it is or needs to be, but I've been smashing my head for over a week now trying to figure this out. I have cropped along the downbeat in loop construction; one single 4 beat measure. I move the clip to the beginning of the track and open audio snap. Turn on audio snap and click set project from clip. This process simply doesn't seem to work for me. The song doesn't line up properly no matter what I try to do in this situation. Any ideas here?
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TerraSin
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Re:Frustrations with tempo and audio snap
2012/04/02 03:05:52
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In other news, apparently the enter key is not an acceptable way to create paragraphs on this forum...
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Frustrations with tempo and audio snap
2012/04/02 03:18:40
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Depending on material type, you may find this video helpful. That is from a drum track recorded with no metronome and involves editing the clip map to get the first beat to line up correctly. Audiosnap doesn't work on loops either although it's not clear from your post if that's what you are trying to do. You'll need to bounce to clip first and then re-convert to a loop after the detection if it is. The enter key/paragraph thing is an issue with the forum software and Firefox V6 onwards. Chrome workas okay as does FF V5 and earlier. Not sure about IE.
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TerraSin
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Re:Frustrations with tempo and audio snap
2012/04/02 03:39:43
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A simpler way of explaining I guess would be that I'm trying to set the project tempo to the clip. The way I was attempting to do this was to simply use the loop construction to accurately highlight a single measure of the clip with the actual beat I'm trying to match and use audiosnap to set the project tempo to the clip I am using for the remix. This method isn't working though and it's always off. Watched the video but it's not exactly what I'm trying to do, unfortunately.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Frustrations with tempo and audio snap
2012/04/02 03:47:27
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Have you tried splitting the clip to a single measure and then using that to extract the tempo? AFAIK audiosnap works on the whole clip not a selection so it will take the tempo of the whole clip not just a selected measure.
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TerraSin
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Re:Frustrations with tempo and audio snap
2012/04/02 03:50:03
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I will try that but won't that prevent me from dragging the clip back out to it's entirety? I'll post results in a few. Gonna make more tea. It's going to be a long night.
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TerraSin
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Re:Frustrations with tempo and audio snap
2012/04/02 04:16:59
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Tried a couple different things but what I've found is the results are never spot on.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Frustrations with tempo and audio snap
2012/04/02 04:19:21
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You can split the clip, get the tempo, then rejoin the clip by selecting both parts and using "bounce to clip" or if it's a groove clip you need just enable looping by selecting it from the right click context menu or press Ctrl+L. That's a toggle BTW.
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M_Glenn_M
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Re:Frustrations with tempo and audio snap
2012/04/02 08:58:05
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I don't know the reference to EBM but is it possible your clip was recorded without a metronome?. In that case it would have multiple tempos which will show up with Audiosnap. (Per fastbikerboy's video).
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John
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Re:Frustrations with tempo and audio snap
2012/04/02 09:47:01
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Sometimes audio snap is over kill. Sometimes all you need to do is a nudge after cutting up the clip. It can also be time stretched too.
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TerraSin
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Re:Frustrations with tempo and audio snap
2012/04/02 20:49:28
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The biggest issue is trying to get the project tempo spot on so I can do work using the stems I'm given to do the remix. EDM (pretty much any electronic music) typically has a single tempo throughout the song without changes. I did find the tempo last night finally for the song I was working on, but it was a painstaking 2 hour long process that would have taken seconds in Cubase or Logic with minimal effort. It seems that Sonar is just way behind where electronic music is concerned with issues like this, not to mention the time stretching algorithm in Sonar is abysmal at best.
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Sickvision
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Re:Frustrations with tempo and audio snap
2012/04/02 23:10:13
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and silence falls on the forum. audio snap why bother try this quick way play the song on media player or even on a jambox turn on sonar and hit p the click under metranome on playback. so as you listen to the song you can ajust sonar tempo window with your ear till the clicks are spot on today i found a odd song with 88.4 it offended me alittle but i got it in 5 min then import the song in sonar. i do this when some tempo catches my eye
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chuckebaby
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Re:Frustrations with tempo and audio snap
2012/04/02 23:36:43
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i know your upset at sonar for your projects frustration but theres no need to bring cubase or logic into it,if thats the case then why are you struggling with it,just do it in cubase,or is it cubase doesnt have the other options sonar has.which are quite a few more than both of those daws you mentioned,listen,you cant expect to take a whole clip of fluctuating tempos and have sonar follow it dead on all the time,because of its tempo not being right on(if its in synch to a metrodone,im not sure youd be having this problem,but ive found autosnap to follow my dead on tempos perfectly. if you do what fbb was saying and take a clip and slice it you can get a basic time stamp for your song but nothing thats going to trace it like a photo. trust me i wish the technology on sonar was doing this as well but as much as you say cube or logic can do this or do that,its fair to say sonar can do other things that those daws cant.its all a matter of preference.we're all going to run into a few problems now and then.im sure you have on cubase,if you didnt...you wouldnt be using sonar right now.never the less.hope it all works out. i would like to see in future releases atleast a click with the mouse to set a tempo.i know it sounds corney,but to click your mouse with the song 4-5 times would give a general tempo would be nice.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Frustrations with tempo and audio snap
2012/04/03 01:41:07
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TerraSin The biggest issue is trying to get the project tempo spot on so I can do work using the stems I'm given to do the remix. EDM (pretty much any electronic music) typically has a single tempo throughout the song without changes. I did find the tempo last night finally for the song I was working on, but it was a painstaking 2 hour long process that would have taken seconds in Cubase or Logic with minimal effort. It seems that Sonar is just way behind where electronic music is concerned with issues like this, not to mention the time stretching algorithm in Sonar is abysmal at best. If the clip has a single tempo and it took you 2 hours to find it, I think you must have been doing something fundamentally wrong, given that in the video I linked you to it takes a little over 6 minutes to find the tempo of a clip that is constantly changing and that includes me waffling on at the same time.  The tempo in most clips that have a single tempo is detected without actually doing anything other than switching the edit filter to "Audio transients" and opening the Audiosnap pallet, which would fall into line with your two second estimate. The real question is, if it took a painstaking two hours in Sonar and would have taken seconds in Logic or Cubase, why on earth didn't you use one of those? That's what I'd do if I had them and I knew that.
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