Tips for V-VOcal use

Author
stephenthemartyr
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 166
  • Joined: 2011/09/28 17:50:46
  • Location: Virginia
  • Status: offline
2012/04/02 07:54:46 (permalink)

Tips for V-VOcal use

I have watched all the groove 3 videos and the ones put out by cakewalk but I really don't understand how to utilize vocal.im not interested in the Cher/ train effect but I would like to know how to correct pit h and use it for natural sounding effects.I really don't understand the other modes besides pitch at all.


Also could anyone explain to me how to tell the key of a song so as to use pitch correction?I haven't figured that out.Thanks maybe cakewalk users could put tips and suggestions and lessons here and it would help us use vocal more instead of going out and buying auto tune 7 by Antares.



Thanks!


HP Pavilion dv6 notebook PC Intel(r)core i7 2820qm cpu @ 2.30ghz,8GB of RAM,Radeon HD 6490m,720 GB harddrive
#1

23 Replies Related Threads

    BlixYZ
    Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 805
    • Joined: 2010/12/31 16:45:54
    • Location: Barrington, NJ
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/02 08:15:40 (permalink)
    First, as long as you don't crank Vvocal up (the Sense knob and whatnot) then it will correct pitch gently and realistically.  Using the move tool, the draw tool, and the lfo tool will all help in instances where auto correction isn't as desired.

    2nd, finding out the key takes a little bit of music theory knowledge-  I usually fiddle at the piano for a few seconds until I determine which pitches work in the song, then I know based on which white and black keys are used what the key is.  There may be a printable chart online if you don't have your keys memorized.  (1 flat = Bflat Major or  D minor and so on)

    Lastly, I just wanted to share how i use Vvocal most often.  If I am working with a client who wants their pitch corrected imperceptibly as opposed to as an "effect" that is easily noticed- I usually start with Antares Auto tune in the FX bin and THEN I use Vvocal to manipulate the spots where Autontune doesn't do what I wanted it too.  Sometime Autotune makes a note more out of tune if the singer was actually closer to the wrong note than they were to the right note.  This is easily fixed with Vvocal one SMALL clip at a time.  Don't use Vvocal on huge clips, break them down into sections.

    I find this combination of autotune and Vvocal to be Perfect for general, everyday pitch correction.
    Hope this helps.
    Sorry my answer includes buying auto tune!
    #2
    BlixYZ
    Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 805
    • Joined: 2010/12/31 16:45:54
    • Location: Barrington, NJ
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/02 08:17:06 (permalink)
    correction- 1 flat = f major or d minor. 
    i'm glad i proofread
    wish i proofread before hitting send!
    #3
    Freex
    Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 478
    • Joined: 2010/11/23 11:10:50
    • Location: Northern Ireland
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/02 10:16:39 (permalink)
    Manually..... 
     
    There is  honestly no way to just hit a botton and expect it to fix everything and still sound natural.

    Best way if to edit note by note,
    Try to keep the start and end of each note as close to the original as possible,
    Rise the middle of the not to the correct pitch and then you  can use the little green points to "tip" the rise and fall so that your starts and ends are almost the original.

    I find this to be the most realistic way of tweaking vocals without them sounds over "tuned".

    don't over straighten your notes -  if you have a bit of a wobble, try to shrink the wave shape down, rather than draw a straight line thru the note.


    Asus P9X79, Intel i7-3930k, 32GB RAM ,Windows 7, RME RayDat, Presonus Firestudio, Presonus Digimax FS, Mackie MCU, Mackie XT, Makcie C4, KRK Rokit 6

    How To Setup A Drum Map...The Easy Way.PDF

    #4
    Loptec
    Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 948
    • Joined: 2011/02/07 13:29:01
    • Location: Sweden
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/02 10:31:45 (permalink)
    Freex


    Manually..... 
     
    There is  honestly no way to just hit a botton and expect it to fix everything and still sound natural.

    Best way if to edit note by note,
    Try to keep the start and end of each note as close to the original as possible,
    Rise the middle of the not to the correct pitch and then you  can use the little green points to "tip" the rise and fall so that your starts and ends are almost the original.

    I find this to be the most realistic way of tweaking vocals without them sounds over "tuned".

    don't over straighten your notes -  if you have a bit of a wobble, try to shrink the wave shape down, rather than draw a straight line thru the note.

    +1


    Spot on

    SAMUEL LIDSTRÖM

    DAW: Sonar Platinum (64bit) with Melodyne Studio - Controllers: Roland VS-700C, Cakewalk A-500 Pro, Yamaha P90
    Desktop Audio Interface: RME HDSPe RayDAT - Laptop Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro

    #5
    mattplaysguitar
    Max Output Level: -55.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1992
    • Joined: 2006/01/02 00:27:42
    • Location: Gold Coast, Australia
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/02 17:13:23 (permalink)
    BlixYZ, you honestely just use AutoTune to correct pitch and if it misses, you don't fix that, you insert ANOTHER pitch correction tool and pitch shift it back?!?!?! Do you realise what you're doing to sound quality and the natural sound you're going for? And you charge clients for this???

    It's like getting a good quality recording at 24 bit 48 wav, saving it as a 128 kbps mp3, then importing it back in as 24 bit 48 wav and expecting it to be the same.

    Also finding the out of key notes "takes a little bit of music theory knowledge" ??? I find it not too difficult to just LISTEN and hear when it is out! These clients must be singing pretty darn out of key if you can't work out where it's supposed to be without some music theory...



    Currently recording my first album, so if you like my music, please follow me on Facebook!
    http://www.facebook.com/mattlyonsmusic

    www.mattlyonsmusic.com 

    #6
    bmb
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 59
    • Joined: 2011/01/22 20:11:21
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/02 17:36:05 (permalink)
    Pretty lame to attack the folks who are trying to be helpful.

    SONAR X1 Expanded (64bit)
    HP Pavilion dv7  Windows 7 (64bit)  8 gig ram
    #7
    daveny5
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 16934
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 09:54:36
    • Location: North Carolina
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/02 17:46:58 (permalink)
    I use the pencil tool to correct notes that are slightly off pitch. Just draw a line at the correct pitch over the bad note and voila! 

    Dave
    Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F
    Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX
    Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic.
    Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. 
    Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
    #8
    Lanceindastudio
    Max Output Level: -29 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4604
    • Joined: 2004/01/22 02:28:30
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/02 17:49:22 (permalink)
    note by note yup yup ;)

    Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard   
    i7 3770k CPU
    32 gigs RAM
    Presonus AudioBox iTwo
    Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit
    Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops
    Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51
    Presonus Eureka
    Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
    #9
    musicroom
    Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2421
    • Joined: 2004/04/26 22:31:02
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/02 17:49:30 (permalink)
    bmb


    Pretty lame to attack the folks who are trying to be helpful.



    +1  What's up with arrogance these days?

     
    Dave
    Songs
    ___________________________________
    Desktop: Platinum / RME Multiface II / Purrfect Audio DAW  I7-3770 / 16 GB RAM / Win 10 Pro / Remote Laptop i7 6500U / 12GB RAM /  RME Babyface



     
     
    #10
    stevec
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 11546
    • Joined: 2003/11/04 15:05:54
    • Location: Parkesburg, PA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/02 17:51:04 (permalink)
    Personally, I find the best technique for any pitch correction software is to only fix what sounds out of tune - not what "looks" out of tune.  So you do have to listen through to determine which spots are noticable and are distracting to an otherwise good performance (assuming the performance is otherwise good ).  But rather trying to make everything pitch perfect according to the software, you make it sound better to your ears.  Of course, a bad performance may wind up being an all-nighter, but hey, that's just the way it goes sometimes.
     
    If you're unsure, just drag a note up and down a little a time and let your ears decide what sounds best.  And don't forget you can adjust not just the "height" of the pitch line, but the angle and vibrato as well.
     

    SteveC
    https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163
     
    SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors;
    Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO);
    Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
     
    #11
    Rasure
    Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 584
    • Joined: 2007/02/06 06:26:21
    • Location: UK
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-Vocal use 2012/04/04 08:22:32 (permalink)
    Most of you will probably already know these but for those who don't...
     
    Make sure vocal tracks are in mono be before using v-vocal (can help stop v-vocal from crashing, although I'm still getting random crashes with v-vocal!)
    Make sure your vocal tracks are nor clipping, I notice if the vocal happens to be clipping even if you cant hear it, after using v-vocal you will get clicks in your audio.
     
    I also find setting "Pitch Detect" mode to "Precision" and "LFO Type" to "Sine" can improve pitched audio.
     

     
     
     
    Just to add, I find this a neat little plugin, more for effects http://www.g200kg.com/en/software/kerovee.html

    [ASUS Z97-K 3.30 gigahertz Intel Core i5-4590]
    [16 Gig Ram]
    [NVIDIA GeForce GTX1050 Ti 1920 X 1080]
    [Windows 10 Pro x64]
    [Sonar Platinum x64 Lifetime]
    [Studio One 4 Pro]
    [Notion 6]
    [Waves Mercury + Abbey Road & SSL Collection V10]
    [Mackie Onyx 400f]
     
    YouTube | 10% Off Waves | Rasuresphere II Omnisphere Library & Midi Stems
    #12
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 16775
    • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
    • Location: Bristol, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/04 09:02:16 (permalink)
    daveny5


    I use the pencil tool to correct notes that are slightly off pitch. Just draw a line at the correct pitch over the bad note and voila! 

    Pretty much the same here.


    The curve tool also has its uses, and the vibrato tool, albeit less so than the others.

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
    Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
    #13
    LpMike75
    Max Output Level: -59 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1621
    • Joined: 2009/10/04 11:50:50
    • Location: CT
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/04 11:21:18 (permalink)
    Hit 'Save" often


    - Mike
    Sonar Platinum - M-Audio Profire 2626 , Pro Tools 11 HD Omni - PC I7 6850K - 64 G RAM - GeForce GTX 970
    http://www.soundcloud.com/michael-lizotte 
    Http://WWW.HomeRecordingWizard.Com
    HTTP://WWW.Facebook.com/HomeRecordingWizard
    Http://www.mjlmusic.com 
    #14
    pwal
    Max Output Level: -46 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2909
    • Joined: 2004/08/24 07:15:57
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/04 12:01:06 (permalink)
    save++ ;)

    list of stuff
    #15
    stevec
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 11546
    • Joined: 2003/11/04 15:05:54
    • Location: Parkesburg, PA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/04 12:57:29 (permalink)
    ... and Bounce to Clip when your edits are complete.
     

    SteveC
    https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163
     
    SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors;
    Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO);
    Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
     
    #16
    konradh
    Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3325
    • Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/04 13:42:07 (permalink)
    I use Melodyne because I like the interface and features, but I have had excellent results with V-Vocal as well.  I think note-by-note is absolutely the way to go.

    @mattplaysguitar, Please back off on the steroids, caffeine, and rudeness.
    #17
    FastBikerBoy
    Forum Host
    • Total Posts : 11326
    • Joined: 2008/01/25 16:15:36
    • Location: Watton, Norfolk, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/04 15:12:14 (permalink)
    +many on the listen first. Shut your eyes and then decide what needs fixing, if any, you may be quite surprised.

    Rule of thumb formant goes in the opposite direction to the pitch correction, that'll help the natural sound.

    I used to use V-vocal for dynamics as well but since the introduction of the easy peasy "nodes at selection" in X1, mute envelopes are now my preferred weapon of choice for that problem.
    #18
    konradh
    Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3325
    • Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/05 09:50:50 (permalink)
    Hey, FBB, long time, no talk.  (My fault--I've been heads-down.)

    As much as I like Melodyne, I actually find editing formants with V-Vocal works a bit better.

    When I move notes with Melodyne, it usually keeps the formats well in line automatically as long as the pitch shift is reasonable; if I have to edit the formants by hand (because I shifted a note pretty far to create a harmony), it does not sound too good.  Not sure what is going on in the software.

    Before I get 10,000 replies , I normally use a real singer for harmonies.  They are occassions, however, when I use the software to create a harmony for a special effect, or as a demo for the singer.
    #19
    Blown306
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 73
    • Joined: 2011/12/31 16:48:30
    • Location: North Central Illinois
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/05 12:02:12 (permalink)
    Hope this is not a really stupid question, because I haven't messed with V-Vocal yet. Can it be used on parts of an electric guitar track? I have a couple of bends in a song that are a few cents off in pitch and could use a little correction to bring them in line...

     - Jeff
    #20
    Player
    Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 330
    • Joined: 2006/03/05 23:29:02
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/05 12:49:24 (permalink)
    Blown306


    Hope this is not a really stupid question, because I haven't messed with V-Vocal yet. Can it be used on parts of an electric guitar track? I have a couple of bends in a song that are a few cents off in pitch and could use a little correction to bring them in line...

    I corrected a note in an overdriven quitar lead a few weeks ago and it worked perfectly.  It was a bend that didn't quite get to pitch, as you describe above.  Give it a try; it is nondestructive until you bounce it.

    Studio Cat i7
    #21
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 16775
    • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
    • Location: Bristol, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/05 13:20:50 (permalink)
    Blown306


    Hope this is not a really stupid question, because I haven't messed with V-Vocal yet. Can it be used on parts of an electric guitar track? I have a couple of bends in a song that are a few cents off in pitch and could use a little correction to bring them in line...

    Yes, as long as it's a single (monophonic) note you're trying to adjust it works really well





    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
    Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
    #22
    konradh
    Max Output Level: -42 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3325
    • Joined: 2006/01/16 16:07:06
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/05 13:37:24 (permalink)
    That is definitely NOT a dumb question, and I wish there had been tools like V-Vocal and Melodyne years ago for instrumental fixes.
     
    For example, listen to the flute at the beginning of The Carpenters song, "We've Only Just Begun."  It's at least 1/4 step off.  Not sure why they didn't catch it during the session, but today it would be an easy fix.  As it is, it makes my teeth hurt.
     
    #23
    Blown306
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 73
    • Joined: 2011/12/31 16:48:30
    • Location: North Central Illinois
    • Status: offline
    Re:Tips for V-VOcal use 2012/04/05 14:45:17 (permalink)
    Excellent news...thanks for the replies! I'll give that a go. I really didn't want to try and 'punch in' a fix unless it was a last resort :)

     - Jeff
    #24
    Jump to:
    © 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1