Only more overall bass needed: mix again or master?

Author
hellogoodbye
Max Output Level: -64 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1343
  • Joined: 2004/03/22 05:46:36
  • Status: offline
2012/04/02 07:57:23 (permalink)

Only more overall bass needed: mix again or master?

I've been posting various questions lately concerning an album I am working on (I hope no one gets sick of me doing so) and little by little I am getting closer to the final version of my son's cd... There is only one issue left right now and that's the overall lack of bass. 

Several people (ranging from regular listeners to someone who reviews cd's for a weekly magazine) have listened to the cd to check if the overall sound was okay or not and (only) the guy from the magazine said that he missed something in the low end. He couldn't 'feel' the bass (not only the bass instrument, but also low toms etc.) as he normally can with other cd's. So the overall loudness (I kept things rather quit btw) was okay (and the music too  ) but the overall bass needs some tweaking.


This is a bit of a problem because although I also think there isn't enough bass when listening to it in my car or on my iPod, I alsmost think there is too MUCH bass when I play the cd on my stereo...!  However, the magazine guy played the cd on his laptop with a good headphone, on his crappy carsystem and on his hifi set at home and in all three cases he missed the bass...


Now I have two options. 1. I can go back to the mix and add some sort of effect (EQ?) to the bass and drumtracks (which aren't always on seperated tracks unfortunately), or 2. I can import the wavs which I have now back into a new project and only add an effect to pump up the bass (so more or less give those wavs a very simple master finish).


I rather skip option 1 because I am afraid it will come down to changing the entire mix again and it's a lot more work  then importing all wavs in a new project and adding a plugin to the master bus (although I have to see what plugin that would be... The Ozone demo has a few days left, so I might use that, but otherwise I probably need some EQ).


Any advice on how to add more 'bass feel' to songs without having to redo all the mixing etc...? Specific plugins, specific settings, all advice is welcome.

Sonar 8.5 PE, Edirol FA-66, Behringer C-1. All instruments in my songs are VSTi's. 
Check out Soundclick
#1

9 Replies Related Threads

    jamesyoyo
    Max Output Level: -40.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3460
    • Joined: 2007/09/08 17:50:10
    • Location: Factory Yoyo Prods Ltd.
    • Status: offline
    Re:Only more overall bass needed: mix again or master? 2012/04/02 08:03:59 (permalink)
    Are you missing the bass or the low end?

    If the former, get back to a new mix.

    If the latter, you might be able to get away with an eq on the Master.
    #2
    hellogoodbye
    Max Output Level: -64 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1343
    • Joined: 2004/03/22 05:46:36
    • Status: offline
    Re:Only more overall bass needed: mix again or master? 2012/04/02 08:11:27 (permalink)
    The low end. I guess. I mean, I can clearly hear the bass lines, but you can't feel them. The 'guy from the magazine' said he couldn't feel for instance the toms in a build up (a lot of songs have some sort of build up with a climax), so it's not only the bass. His (almost) exact words were (translated for everyone's convenience  ): "the only things I was missing were the low tones, they might as well be a bit more prominent: the bass but also the low toms in the climax of the opening song." He then said he would like to feel it in his stumach. 


    About an EQ on the master: I am afraid to make things muddy... I guess I really only have to boost the lowest of lowest possible frequencies? In certain articles and books and what not you read which frequencies can be altered best for various effects and purposes: what frequencies should I look at to give more bass on various songs? Or does it all depent on the song...? (It probably does... I should have chosen an easier hobby... Any wannabe master engineers out there who want to practice their skills on my 12 wavs???  )

    Sonar 8.5 PE, Edirol FA-66, Behringer C-1. All instruments in my songs are VSTi's. 
    Check out Soundclick
    #3
    Guitarhacker
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 24398
    • Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
    • Location: NC
    • Status: offline
    Re:Only more overall bass needed: mix again or master? 2012/04/02 08:17:14 (permalink)
    You said you have Ozone....... One of the things I do is use it's multiband compressor which allows me to target specific frequency bands in the music. Getting this right may take some time. I would not hesitate one bit to buy the full version of Ozone if you are even halfway serious about your music. 

    As long as the bass and the drums sound good in solo mode and perhaps even together, using a multiband lets you extract the punch and feel with out destroying the rest of the music. 

    You can also insert a new stereo buss and route the bass and drums to it.... inserting a compressor that will work on just that buss and the things assigned to it. 

    Your second paragraph illustrates the reason we need to have a decent set of reference monitors that give us an accurate representation of what we are actually recording.   Having one playback system indicate too much bass and a different one indicates not enough..... your monitoring system is not adequate and it's not telling you the truth......... Or perhaps the room is the problem. Or a combination of both. The room can and does affect the sound in a huge way. That's why pro studios have sound treatment. Home studios are generally lacking in this one most important area. 

    Another good tool to consider buying is  ARC..... Automatic room correction software. It scans the room with different frequencies and learns which frequencies are emphasized and which are diminished by the room  itself.... then corrects the sound you are hearing so the mixing you do is more accurate. It can make a substantial difference.

    I would venture to say that if you took a professionally master CD, and played it on the playback systems you mentioned.... there would likely not be a huge difference in the sound/bass levels like you get with your mixes. That pro mix was mixed where they could hear it accurately. 

    Any way... that is my 2 cents 


    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
    Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


    BMI/NSAI

    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
    #4
    hellogoodbye
    Max Output Level: -64 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1343
    • Joined: 2004/03/22 05:46:36
    • Status: offline
    Re:Only more overall bass needed: mix again or master? 2012/04/02 08:58:43 (permalink)
    Thanks for the advice. I might give the Ozone multiband a try on a bus etc. I was thinking about using an EQ on everything, but Ozone's multiband compressor only on the drums and bass sounds like the right thing to do. Although I am getting sick and tired of exporting those 12 projects over and over again... 


    About buying Ozone: I only really need to get things right for this one project, really. Music is a hobby and I am fine with what I normally create but since this cd is going to be distributed to shops etc. I have to have a bit higher standards... I am afraid I have only one day left with the Ozone demo and I doubt if I can fix everything in one day. And of course whenever I need to so something with those projects later on, I'd still need Ozone... So if I am going to give this a try, I have to buy it. Which makes decising what to do harder again. I might as well spend the money on some cheap online mastering service... 

    Sonar 8.5 PE, Edirol FA-66, Behringer C-1. All instruments in my songs are VSTi's. 
    Check out Soundclick
    #5
    batsbrew
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10037
    • Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
    • Location: SL,UT
    • Status: offline
    Re:Only more overall bass needed: mix again or master? 2012/04/02 11:05:20 (permalink)
    mix again.
    always.

    never fix anything in the 'mastering stage'

    or you will regret it on some other level.

    Bats Brew music Streaming
    Bats Brew albums:
    "Trouble"
    "Stay"
    "The Time is Magic"
    --
    Sonar 6 PE>Bandlab Cakewalk>Studio One 3.5>RME BFP>i7-7700 3.6GHz>MSI B250M>G.Skill Ripjaws 4 series 16GB>Samsung 960 EVO m.2ssd>W 10 Pro
     
    #6
    bitflipper
    01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
    • Total Posts : 26036
    • Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
    • Location: Everett, WA USA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Only more overall bass needed: mix again or master? 2012/04/02 12:31:54 (permalink)
    Use Ozone's multiband exciter, specifically the low band with the crossover around 120Hz. Any higher and you start introducing mud.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

    My Stuff
    #7
    notdeafyet
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10
    • Joined: 2012/03/19 10:33:14
    • Location: Manchester, TN
    • Status: offline
    Re:Only more overall bass needed: mix again or master? 2012/04/02 13:37:13 (permalink)
    If your bass, bass drum, and toms are well balanced under 100 Hz, and if you de-cluttered or low-cut the vocals/midrange instruments, go ahead and master. If not, the first step is to get some monitors you trust. Even with great monitors, you might want to make a "Playback Compensating EQ" that sits in your master bus for mixing and is turned off before you send the mix to mastering (and that can be used and then turned off in mastering). And, to use kind of a cheat, you can load someone else's song from your genre and play it with your song, together, and see which kick/bass/toms stand out - yours or the other song. I know it sounds awful, but it can be really enlightening. Oh, and don't forget to turn your master bus input gain down or it will be very in the red... and remember to put it back when you're done. And always save... and always wear clean underwear, cause you might get hit by a bus... and... and... Am I micro-managing?
    #8
    MP3ISTHEDEVIL
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 68
    • Joined: 2011/05/15 00:22:30
    • Status: offline
    Re:Only more overall bass needed: mix again or master? 2012/04/02 13:55:07 (permalink)
    Im sure everyones advice is good (I didn't read them)
    But without an example it is hard to say honestly.
     
    My first thought is playing style.
    Does the bass guitar ride the kick ?
     
    #9
    wizard71
    Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 836
    • Joined: 2012/02/12 05:45:05
    • Location: UK
    • Status: offline
    Re:Only more overall bass needed: mix again or master? 2012/04/02 16:56:09 (permalink)
    Why not post one in the songs forum so people can have a listen?

    Bibs

    http://www.youtube.com/SpaceTimeAces
    https://soundcloud.com/space-time-aces
    Sonar Platinum - Win 8.1 x64 - Haswell 4770k - ASrock Z87 pro3 - 32gb ram - Fractal design R4 case - 3x HDD 1 USB 2.0 external 1x cr M4 ssd for samples - Octa-capture - Sontronics Aria - Sontronics STC-1s - BX8 monitors - ARC 2 system - Kawai CA63 piano - Kawai MP6 Stage piano - Fender custom Telecaster FMT - Yamaha LL6 - Fender P bass


    #10
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1