mattplaysguitar
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Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
I recently discovered what I regard as the perfect bass sound. To my ears, it sounds amazing, and I would love to make a decent attempt at recreating it. The low end has so much power and fullness. The highs just sound clear, tamed and crisp. Have a listen to when the bass kicks in on this song (only 20 or so seconds in). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFE9FpD86JY I'm curious what you think from start to finish. It sounds like definitely played with fingers. Brand new strings (of course). Maybe a nice valve amp? Scooped mids. Bit of tape saturation? I know I'm not going to have anything close gear wise to replicate, but if I can get 80% there I'd be happy, but I don't expect even that. We shall see! How would you go about it? Could you only do it with an amazing amp and bass combo, or could you get reasonably close by tweaking less than ideal gear? P.S. I ordered some felt picks today following the suggestion on another of my bass guitar threads. So hoping those sound good cause even though I'm starting to LOVE the sound of playing with my fingers (and beginning to hate the pick sound), I'm just not able to play with the same control yet and I don't have time to learn. Or not willing to put the time into learning. I'm hoping the felt pick will be a suitable easy way out!
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ChuckC
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/03 23:41:02
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That does sound fat. Sounds like a nice Fender through a Harke 4x10 with aluminum cones compressed to shizz!
Eq'd to give a nice low end with just enough highs for distinction. Almost sounds synth it's so fat.
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/04 06:27:52
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Mmm, those Hartke amps look niceeeee. I want. I wonder how I could go with emulators. Check this: http://www.ikmultimedia.com/ampegsvx/audiodemo/ Listen to number 18 Octa Groove Unprocessed (which I think my bass sounds pretty similar to) and then go to 16 Octa Groove and listen what they do to the sound. THAT is what I want! Hell, if you can get it that good just from a simulator, I think I'm gonna have to get my credit card out...
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/04 06:46:46
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I think maybe that the person actually played some actual bass notes.
I can barely hear any bass on my laptop speakers... I can hear the top of the swell.
Which, indicates to me that the bass part is actually a bass part.
That suits my personal preference, but it sort of defies the common approach of playing a bit higher up the scale so that the cheapy speakers play some bass.
I like my kick and bass to sound great on a system that actually plays back the lows with authority. I find that when I play the low E and love it on my real systems, that sometimes it just disappears on cheap systems. That's not ideal, but it sure sounds good on a nice system.
A lot of "bass" parts these days are episodes of hyped lower mid range because it translates well on modest playback systems.
I'm imagining you are enjoying the bass in that song on a nicer system for playback... or perhaps headphones... and I think I would too.
Perhaps you are simply responding to the novelty of hearing a true bass part?
If that's the case, I'd say any simple setup with enough power and a speaker that can actually play bass tones will do it. It's all in the player... but a SVT with a JBL wouldn't hurt.
:-)
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ChuckC
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/04 07:22:58
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ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/04 07:31:49
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I think I worked it out.
It's an octave pedal. Blended with an octave down. That's the sound I was hearing. I'm pretty sure of it! Would that sound right? I know nothing of bass specific effects but from what I'm hearing, that's the main thing going on here. Still a very nice amp, but I think it's the sound I want.
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Houndawg
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/04 13:06:54
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Ever consider contacting the artist and simply asking how the bass sound was achieved? You're already doing them a favor by calling attention to their music, and you might be surprised by just how forthcoming some artists are (or not).
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bitflipper
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/04 21:17:43
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Sounds like a synthesized bass to me. Or perhaps an amped bass doubled with a synth. It does sound good.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/05 05:05:21
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Well I went in to a bass shop today and talked to the guy about getting this sound. Turns out the bass player of this band actually is a customer of this shop!! He wasn't able to tell me too much other than what bass the guy normally played (Fender Jazz) and he said it was highly possible he used an Octaver pedal (without listening to the track). I'm pretty much convinced that's what he's done. I can hear it real clear now. So I bought an EBS OctaBass pedal after A/B ing a few different ones. It sounds great. It was cheapest too! And I liked it the most. As I can't play with fingers well enough, I got a set of flat wound strings and some felt picks to emulate it as much as I can. I think it'll at the very least get me a very unique sound as this is probably all a very unusual combination! So that and maybe some amp modelling at mixing time and I think I'll get me a nice sound. The Octaver could work great for use in a chorus too, and switch it off for the verses.
Long weekend now so time for some fun and see what I come up with!! Hopefully I can lay some tracks down :)
Thanks for the posts, guys
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/05 06:13:28
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Mmm, these new strings are sounding pretty similar to my old strings (As you would expect, cause they are meant to be super dark) but I think they hold their notes a little better. Bit smoother transients and just better intonation. Expensive for a new set of strings, but I think worth it.
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ChuckC
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/05 23:02:55
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I was never a big fan of flatwound strings unless I was going for a rockabilly type sound on guitar.... I wish you lucj with them on bass as I have never used them on one!
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/06 11:21:26
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I finally got to listen on a big system.
I'm having a hard time figuring out if it's an octaver or just the sound of a nice straight forward tube amplifier with all the knobs set perfectly.
A real nice class A amp will have a lot of 2nd order harmonics which can be loosely interpreted as an octave doubler.
It sounds, to me like a classic Fender Jazz bass tone played expertly.
I'm curious, and hope you get a chance to ask the bassist someday.
best regards,
mike
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/06 19:01:53
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Yeah I'm not too sure now either about the octaver. I'm starting to think maybe it's not and is like you set, just a really nice setup. You're right on the Fender Jazz, the guy in the bass shop said that's what he played and showed me the actual guitar (but I don't recall what it was). The bass I'm using looks pretty much like a rip off of this baby: http://www.fender.com/en-GB/products/search.php?partno=0252602350 Except mine has rosewood fretboard. The body is really light in mine too so I expect a lot of sustain and tone will be lost there. Cheapo loosely compressed particle board. It has a B.C. Rich Bronze Series stamp on it, which is weird cause I find it hard to believe it is actually a B.C. Rich guitar... Can't find anything like it on their website. So likely a chinese rip-off! No further identifying ciphers on it at all. I've managed to at least come up with my sound I'm going to use. Running the bass (with tone control set to about half way - using my ears, not physically setting it half way cause this knob ain't in ANY way linear!) into a Zoom GFX-5 Guitar pedal just through the compressor (It's all I have) then out into my OctaBass (set to give a subtle Octave, not too strong), then DI into my Edirol UA-25EX. Decided to use a pick rather than felt pick. Smashing that sound with the Tube Leveller in SONAR to give it some grunge, but I'll experiment further. Maybe parallel Tube Leveller could sound nice. Probably smash out a subtle amp sim somewhere too with a slight crunchy grunge if I find something suitable. Then eq it into the mix and that's it! Also will only use the OctaBass where appropriate, but probably most of the time for most songs. Cut it out on build-ups to bring more impact when the beat drops (not the appropriate term for my style, but you get the idea!) I'll post a little sample of the clean DI sound to the tweaked sound shortly. See what you guys think. It's not going to be super close to that sound at all, but that's ok, always good to develop your own sound anyway. And I don't exactly have his equipment available!
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/06 20:23:33
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Little further info, the bass player is Wayne Bennett, former bass player of The Streets. And the drummer of the band was Lily Allen's musical director or something. And when she quit music, he went to Gypsy and the Cat. Got a live video showing the bass. I think they just DI'ed this one though cause it was just for the radio. http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/media/s3248248.htm I'm starting to see that most of the time when a popular band just pops up, there is just about ALWAYS someone involved who is already in the industry. Just goes to show that sometimes no matter how good your music is, you need someone in the industry to help you get out there, or you just can't fight the competition and you'll never get heard. Fortunately I have links to a pop lyric writer who writes for many big names in the industry! And another who is a major Queensland radio host! Now just got to get them to like my music and make it a little more poppy 
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bandontherun19
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/06 20:37:44
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Sounds just like my Warwick Fretless through my Universal Audio LA 610 with an Izotope Alloy plug, some limitting, compression, EQ and excitation in that Alloy plug.
All you need is love, just ask the Beatles? ----------
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/06 21:55:22
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Have a listen to my two samples if you're bored. http://soundcloud.com/mattlyonsmusic/sets/bass-samples The first one is the clean, and second uses the OctaBass and some compression before DI into SONAR. Unfortunately they are not properly matched for volume so the OctaBass sample is a bit quieter, but you can still hear the sound it gives. Thus it doesn't really have the same punch as the other one. Both have been hit with the TL64 Tube Leveler fairly heavily with a strong clipping factor to give it some grungy edge. No other processing. This is definitely a preference thing here, and I think I may find a big divide on what people like! I imagine I'll see a lot of folks preferring the clean sound, but the OctaBass is certainly a bit more unique and interesting. So I'm very happy with the decision. Welcome to any ideas or suggestions in sound of the bass if you can think of anything. Please note that the guitar and vocal parts are just rough recordings for reference purposes. Drums are BFD with a real set of Sabian cymbals set up over the midi kit and just miced with a spaced pair using Rode K2's. I talked about this drum setup a while back and very happy with the results. No processing has been done on the drums yet. 100% raw sound. Infact. Just comparing my bass and Gypsy and the Cat's bass, I think the low end is sounding remarkably similar. Same kind of feel to it. Mines a little rounded feeling at the high end, slightly muffled, but nothing a bit of post processing can't spruce up. I'll never quite get that beautiful high end theirs has, but something different can be good! I'm feeling really confident that once I mix this properly I can get a really great sounding bass off a $150 ebay heap of junk. Granted, I did put new strings, $400 of effects pedals and 20 minutes of correcting the intonation and 8 hours playing round with sounds to develop the the right settings (running through amps, using amp simulators etc). In the end I went with super simple. But I'm quite amazed at what you can do with cheap gear if you spend the time to tweak it and really listen.
post edited by mattplaysguitar - 2012/04/06 22:19:13
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bandontherun19
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/06 23:51:07
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"Sounds just like my Warwick Fretless through my Universal Audio LA 610 with an Izotope Alloy plug, some limitting, compression, EQ and excitation in that Alloy plug. "
Or not, whatever.
All you need is love, just ask the Beatles? ----------
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/07 02:49:16
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bandontherun19
"Sounds just like my Warwick Fretless through my Universal Audio LA 610 with an Izotope Alloy plug, some limitting, compression, EQ and excitation in that Alloy plug. "
Or not, whatever.
Woah! Sorry mate, I just didn't notice your post there! I have not heard the Warwick in action but looking at the solidity of it, I'm sure it's got some amazing sustain and power, especially on those low notes. Much like the bass I'm hearing on this song. And the tube saturation through your UA is certainly gonna help. Haven't used the Izotope Alloy plug before. Looks good. I do like Ozone. You mention excitation. I was actually thinking of that at one stage and it's certainly something I'll keep in mind and give it a try. Especially as I want to add some more harmonics back into the recording. I don't feel I get the right sound if I keep it bright, so I think cutting the highs and adding them back through light distortion and/or harmonic excitation could give me a really nice sound. I'm a big fan of that type of processing on guitars, when it suits.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/07 09:13:42
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I really liked the live radio booth performance.
It was like seeing a Radiohead video except the guys were actually playing the instruments.
I like all the "live" misgivings and getting to see an actual performance.
Good stuff.
best regards,
mike
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/07 10:17:53
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Hi Matt, I checked out your reference track that you're sort of going for as well as the tracks you provided. In my opinion, the difference is....if you listen close to the G&C kick drum, it isn't even remotely close to where the bass guitar lies. That bass is the lowest frequency in the mix pushing about 50 Hz with a nice, tight compressor on it so it never lashes out. The kick drum is way out of the way frequency wise and is more up in the 85 Hz range where it's tigher and out of the bass guitar territory. See that's the thing, when you want a nice low bass to stay in your mix, you have to go with a kick drum that has a bit more beater attack that also doesn't thump in any frequencies close to where the bass is. The bass is what that song is about for me. If they had the kick drum down low, they'd need to bring the bass low end to something higher. This is where carving can really help you get what you're after. In your mixes I heard, your bass isn't down low enough in the frequency range to hit like G&C's. You'll then need to sacrifice some kick drum thump once you get down there. A good 5 string bass with new strings and a tight compressor on the 50 Hz bottom should sort this right out. Or, a DI and a pre-amps bass signal will work. You set one for the sub low area, the other for the definition. Granted, this is a different style of music here which is more guitar oriented, but listen to how low my bass is in this. It just grabs that low end area and never lets go. Fender P custom 5 string into a Manley on one end, and a direct box on the other. Mix them together, and you get this: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4909348/DestinyPreview.mp3 Of course my bass there isn't as dominant as what you're looking for, but that same low end is there that never quits or gets muddy. No octaver yet pretty similar results. -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/07 19:19:57
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Thanks for the listen and detailed observation, Danny. Appreciate it. You're right on that kick drum! I never even thought about it as I was concentrating on the bass, but I can barely even feel it. All the punch comes from the attack of the bass guitar. You and Mike both have made the point the sound and feel could just be literally coming from the fact he is playing low notes on the bass. I guess I'm starting to think now G&tC started with a good, low powerful bass and through equipment (including the guitar itself) and maybe processing, added the mid end growl into the sound. I guess I've been taking the opposite approach, trying to start with the mid bass notes by playing at an octave higher on the guitar, then trying to put the sub lows back in with the OctaBass. You're right with that sample of your song. It's got a bit of a different sound still (as it's obviously a different style), but in general, it's that sound I was going for. I always just assumed with a 5 string bass that the extra string would just continue on after the G. Quick google check up made me realise of course you can always add a B string lower than the E! So yes, good point there. G&tC use a Fender Jazz typically, but that's not to say the tuning is standard. Who knows. I guess I could always work on listening to the notes in the song and work it out, but eh. Anywho, thanks for the comment. Some good stuff to think about when I get down to mixing. I've already started recording now so will continue with the sound I came up with. I'm happy with it being different anyway. Hopefully it's a bit more of a unique sound in the end anyway which is often something nice to strive for if it works (which is always subjective!). I will experiment with the OctaBass off and hitting some real low notes too with some other songs if I find they fit. I don't always find the songs allow me to get that low because of the way I want to work the feel of the bass. I'm really starting to learn a lot more about how different writing bass lines are from normal guitar because choosing the right octaves and whether things go up or down makes so much of a difference to the feel of the song. On guitar, it's just more of a sound choice and I think it's much more free to do whatever you feel like (Within reason). Bass you kinda need to get it right or it doesn't feel right.
post edited by mattplaysguitar - 2012/04/07 19:21:45
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/08 00:54:23
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mattplaysguitar
Thanks for the listen and detailed observation, Danny. Appreciate it.
You're right on that kick drum! I never even thought about it as I was concentrating on the bass, but I can barely even feel it. All the punch comes from the attack of the bass guitar. You and Mike both have made the point the sound and feel could just be literally coming from the fact he is playing low notes on the bass. I guess I'm starting to think now G&tC started with a good, low powerful bass and through equipment (including the guitar itself) and maybe processing, added the mid end growl into the sound. I guess I've been taking the opposite approach, trying to start with the mid bass notes by playing at an octave higher on the guitar, then trying to put the sub lows back in with the OctaBass.
You're right with that sample of your song. It's got a bit of a different sound still (as it's obviously a different style), but in general, it's that sound I was going for. I always just assumed with a 5 string bass that the extra string would just continue on after the G. Quick google check up made me realise of course you can always add a B string lower than the E! So yes, good point there. G&tC use a Fender Jazz typically, but that's not to say the tuning is standard. Who knows. I guess I could always work on listening to the notes in the song and work it out, but eh.
Anywho, thanks for the comment. Some good stuff to think about when I get down to mixing. I've already started recording now so will continue with the sound I came up with. I'm happy with it being different anyway. Hopefully it's a bit more of a unique sound in the end anyway which is often something nice to strive for if it works (which is always subjective!). I will experiment with the OctaBass off and hitting some real low notes too with some other songs if I find they fit. I don't always find the songs allow me to get that low because of the way I want to work the feel of the bass. I'm really starting to learn a lot more about how different writing bass lines are from normal guitar because choosing the right octaves and whether things go up or down makes so much of a difference to the feel of the song. On guitar, it's just more of a sound choice and I think it's much more free to do whatever you feel like (Within reason). Bass you kinda need to get it right or it doesn't feel right.
Hi Matt, Yeah I think you're thinking along the right lines now. I knew my tune wasn't the same stylistically, but I'm glad you heard what I mean about the bass there. It just sits in that little pocket and can go down really low without walking on anything. The key is getting that where you want it, and then making sure the kick drum isn't anywhere near the same area. That's how the bass stands out like it does. Also keep in mind, that's a very clean bass on G&C and the compressor is super tight. They got rid of all the unwanted frequencies on that, comped it nice and tight probably using an multiband comp or something....or it could be as some of the others suggested....it very well could have a hiint of synth bass in it. If we listen to the basses you posted up, personally man....I think yours have more personality than the G&C bass. However, that G&C bass just occupies that low end so well, it's easy to spot why you'd want a tone like that. But I dig what you came up with too. Now here's the other thing to think about...if you decide to go with your bass tone, because you're not hitting that sub low area like they are, you got room to pump your kick drum which in my opinion, for your song, that would be the better choice. As long as you have a good bass sound that has an identity or a definition, it's ok if you pair it up with the kick drum and allow them to work as a team. This is a mistake people make all too often when they try to cop tones. They think a bass has more lows in it than it really does. Little do they know...the kick drum (as well as mastering) is enhancing things as well. I always listen to the song in my head before I record it and ask myself: "do I hear a boomier 70's type bass for this? If I do, the kick needs some beater attack and a different bottom. Do I hear a thumpier kick drum? If that's the case, I need less lows in my bass, maybe a bit more pf a percussive clack at around 2.5 k or so...and a different low end accentuation that's far away from the possible 55-65 Hz I may try in order to make the kick have that thump and pump." Anyway, I'm glad you've gained some ground on this and I wish you the best of luck with everything man. :) -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Recreating the bass guitar sound of this song
2012/04/08 22:58:52
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Good words of wisdom there to imagine it in your head first, then use that as a guide. Often that can be harder to do when you listen to what you have recorded and things can start to lose it. I'll keep these mixing tips in mind when I move onto mixing (Which won't be for a good 6 months as I have lots to record and a full time job!).
Appreciate the help. Thanks man
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