stephenthemartyr
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my end product is not loud
I mixed and recorded this song and then tried to "master" it in t-racks by ik multimedia but it still seems soft in volume and punch.I have no idea what to do.Anyone care to offer me some advice?And please dont be nasty about it.Thanks a bunch! http://soundcloud.com/letmylightshine/intro1-wav
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karma1959
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/12 21:10:10
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What are your output levels? Are you using a brickwall limiter / level maximizer as your last effect on your master bus?
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stephenthemartyr
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/12 21:11:40
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in sonar?on the master track?yea ill have to take a look to see what the level is.The beginning of the song is just piano and the end is much more with 6 minutes in between
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daveny5
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/12 21:32:08
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I have an external mixer and what I've done is taken a couple of CDs I like and played them and marked the peak levels on it. That way when I mix my tracks, I have a target to shoot for. I'm getting a lot more consistent levels in my recordings now. I'm sure you could do something similar if you aren't using an external mixer.
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CJaysMusic
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/13 00:14:57
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As far as the volume goes, It can be a 1000 of different things. One of those is that it could be that you have allot of unwanted frequencies building up in your mix.
Try mixing it and use "Complementary EQ Techniques" while mixing it.
As far as the lack of punch, this can be a number of things also. Maybe your attack times are too fast and your release times are too long. It can be 100 other things also.
Cj
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osd
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/13 01:13:30
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Pro Channel Compression + L2A Leveler. 
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/13 04:54:47
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It would also be useful if you describe your routing/bussing structure. - Have you inserted a Master Bus?
- Have you routed all of your Tracks to sub-busses? (Drums/Guitars/Vocals etc)
- Have you routed ALL of these sub-busses to your Master Bus?
- Have you checked that NONE of your tracks or Sub-busses are routed directly to your Soundcard/Interface?
- Have you cleared up all the build of of Low Frequency 'Mud' by inserting a HPF on most, if not all of your tracks?
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stephenthemartyr
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/13 12:39:17
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hey thanks for all the help i really appreciate it!I think I use the HPF on the prochannel eq,is there a "standard" frequency range whee the mud is?like 80 and below?
My routhing is as follows and will likely show I dont know what Im doing,but Im a fast learner.I have ezdrummer with every drum having its own output which are tracks 1-9 and are routed to a drum bus which is routed to the master bus which is routed to the master
Then I have 4 different synths that are sent to the master track(not sure how to mix synths)
also is the master track that sits where the busses sit and then the master track with the right and left faders with the lock symbol rep[resent the same thing?
Thanks and I hope this makes sense
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/13 12:48:14
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You can EQ a lot of stuff out up to 200 area-
Lance
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stephenthemartyr
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/13 12:55:38
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could you explain a little more please?thanks,I have read much on eq but sometime i find it easier to understand someone directly
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stephenthemartyr
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/13 13:07:02
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another question is if the beginning 5 minutes of my song are 90% piano and 10% drums and the last minute is a buildup resulting in brain splintering madness,how do make it so you dont have to turn the track all the way up to here the piano?
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CJaysMusic
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/13 13:33:13
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stephenthemartyr
another question is if the beginning 5 minutes of my song are 90% piano and 10% drums and the last minute is a buildup resulting in brain splintering madness,how do make it so you dont have to turn the track all the way up to here the piano?
You can use automation envelopes or you can just mix it the way it sounds the best by adding any effects you feel fit to each of the track while setting your gain stages on both tracks so you can hear each instruemnt at the level you want to hear them at. CJ
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CJaysMusic
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/13 13:36:01
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could you explain a little more please?thanks,I have read much on eq but sometime i find it easier to understand someone directly You listen to it and you find the frequencies that you need to cut or boost at those frequencies. Make sure you set your Q setting for the filter so it only cuts or boost the desired frequency area.
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daveny5
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/13 13:38:18
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That's why you have to understand the frequencies being used by each instrument and how to use EQ to keep them from masking each other out. There are whole books on that subject.
Dave Computer: Intel i7, ASROCK H170M, 16GB/5TB+, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, TASCAM US-16x08, Cakewalk UM-3G MIDI I/F Instruments: SL-880 Keyboard controller, Korg 05R/W, Korg N1R, KORG Wavestation EX Axes: Fender Stratocaster, Line6 Variax 300, Ovation Acoustic, Takamine Nylon Acoustic, Behringer GX212 amp, Shure SM-58 mic, Rode NT1 condenser mic. Outboard: Mackie 1402-VLZ mixer, TC Helicon VoiceLive 2, Digitech Vocalist WS EX, PODXTLive, various stompboxes and stuff. Controllers: Korg nanoKONTROL, Wacom Bamboo Touchpad
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strikinglyhandsome1
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/13 13:43:45
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If you use T-Racks then open it in standalone and compare your finished piece with a commercial track you like. The groove3 video helps as it runs through what you should be looking for etc but obviously a perfect mix is your best place to start and then finish it off with T-Racks.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/13 13:46:33
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stephenthemartyr
hey thanks for all the help i really appreciate it!I think I use the HPF on the prochannel eq,is there a "standard" frequency range whee the mud is?like 80 and below?
My routhing is as follows and will likely show I dont know what Im doing,but Im a fast learner.I have ezdrummer with every drum having its own output which are tracks 1-9 and are routed to a drum bus which is routed to the master bus which is routed to the master
Then I have 4 different synths that are sent to the master track(not sure how to mix synths)
also is the master track that sits where the busses sit and then the master track with the right and left faders with the lock symbol rep[resent the same thing?
Thanks and I hope this makes sense
Point of order regarding terminology. The bus that YOU insert for all the other busses to feed into should be referred to as the MASTER bus. The built in bus that points to your Soundcard should be referred to as MAIN OUTS. So no, they are 2 entirely different things (though the distinction can be a bit blurry at times) The biggest difference is that the Master bus is just like any other bus and can have Fx chains added, automation written, sends added, Mute & Solo buttons present etc You can't do any of this with your Main Outs.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/13 15:32:07
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I mixed and recorded this song and then tried to "master" it in t-racks by ik multimedia but it still seems soft in volume and punch.I have no idea what to do.Anyone care to offer me some advice?And please dont be nasty about it.Thanks a bunch! "Dynamic Range" vs. "Average Loudness" You have to strike an acceptable balance between these two extremes. The lack of punch can be down to the original source sounds... as well as individual track processing (the mix process). If you want more "snap" on the snare, use a compressor to emphasize the transient. Generally speaking, if the mix isn't pretty close to the way you want the end result to sound... you need to remix the tune. Don't try to fix the mix at the mastering stage. Rather... use the mastering stage to make small tweaks to an otherwise good mix... and to ensure a consistent sound from tune-to-tune.
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stephenthemartyr
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/13 17:54:34
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Thanks guys I cant decide if i should "master" inside sonar x1 or export and master in TrackS by ikmultimedia.I like the snare in this track I think my main problem is overall volume,I keep comparing it to a song by emery(band)and mine is not nearly as loud.So i remixed but still same problem.I keep "mastering" but same problem?any thoughts I need major help
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stephenthemartyr
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/13 18:26:00
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yea i need like a quick instrument frequency book
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strikinglyhandsome1
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/13 18:43:42
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vicevursa
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/15 17:44:44
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Very good resources! Thanks!
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/15 22:17:39
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For starters, you're not going to get it as loud as a commercial record and maintain the level of quality (or lack of!) that they get. Their stuff is professionally mastered by masters of the mastering art that have studied mastering for years and have earned the right to be called masterers!
That said, there are lots of things you can do to make a track louder. I won't list them, but rather direct you to a great book - Mastering Audio by Bob Katz. Well worth the read. It's a huge topic, and there are so many things to learn. Just know you can't compete without a fair bit of experience and the right tools. But a bit of practise and you can work your way closer and closer. Just PLEASE compare your original mix with your mastered mix at the same listening levels so you can hear the changes you have made and ensure you have not degraded your sound quality more than you are willing to do.
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Cactus Music
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/15 23:05:56
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A picture is worth a 1000 words, I clicked on your link to listen and I didn't really need to, I could see the problem. That is if the Sound click wave image is anywhere close to acurate. I think you just really need to ride the master and do a little simple volume automation here. I would actually start neer the end and get a good balance between synths and piano, then go back to begining and push the piano until the other instruments come in. There's a fine line between having dynamics in a song and being heard. I tried to copy image but picture won't stick , anyway it's clear you can see the wave form starts low and builds to near cliping in the end. http://a1.sndcdn.com/images/player-overlay.png?ef56891
post edited by Cactus Music - 2012/04/16 11:04:38
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g_randybrown
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/04/16 10:01:30
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stephenthemartyr
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/05/13 15:12:12
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Cactus Music
A picture is worth a 1000 words, I clicked on your link to listen and I didn't really need to, I could see the problem. That is if the Sound click wave image is anywhere close to acurate.
I think you just really need to ride the master and do a little simple volume automation here.
I would actually start neer the end and get a good balance between synths and piano, then go back to begining and push the piano until the other instruments come in. There's a fine line between having dynamics in a song and being heard.
I tried to copy image but picture won't stick , anyway it's clear you can see the wave form starts low and builds to near cliping in the end.
http://a1.sndcdn.com/images/player-overlay.png?ef56891
If you read what I said about the song you would understand.But ill explain again and I still might be wrong considering I am self taught I think I deserve some slack,and could you listen to it not just look at the wav form.The whole song is a quiet piano part then is a crescendo for the last 2 minutes or so.I wanted it to almost feel chaotic at the end.So even if the beginning is piano and the end is piano,drums,and a bunch of synths is the whole wav supposed to be even?
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stephenthemartyr
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/05/13 15:14:19
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Guitarhacker
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Re:my end product is not loud
2012/05/13 20:33:27
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I looked and I listened....
How much volume and punch do you want an acoustic piano to have?
As it progresses closer to the end the drums and orchestration come in and it gets more full sounding.
As far as getting it louder and punchier, I would suggest working on the instrument((s) IN THE MIX that need the punch....such as the drums and perhaps the bass. Leave the piano and other things alone.
You can use EQ and compression on the specific tracks that need to be punchy..... I have use a multi band compressor to just effect certain parts of the audio spectrum, mainly the lower end, while leaving the highs and mids alone. This did have the effect of adding punch with out compressing the entire thing.
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