Just to even it out here is some Keith Moon Wisdom

Sorry double thread, damm

Jeff Evans




My son these days plays better than both of them!

Define 'better' Jeff.

It could be said that Jason Bonham is a 'better' drummer than his dad, technically, and yet when you hear those songs with him at the kit, it isn't *quite* as good. Some players just have a certain something that will always trump any amount of technical skill.

I don't think the tennis comparison is valid either..music isn't a competition.

Jeff Evans


You are stuck in a serious time warp Ben. Both those drummers were good in their time. But compared to many modern drummers they are not very great at all. Many many modern players could outplay both of these guys standing on their ear!

My son these days plays better than both of them!

It is a bit like tennis. Tennis many years ago was not even close to how it is today. The finest tennis players today would have walked over many great players of the past with ease. (and when I say past I don't mean recent past eg Sampras who I also see as an amazing modern player, I am talking players back in roughly the same time of Keith Moon or Bonham maybe)

According to you there has not been any great pop music since the couple of songs that Ringo wrote. Err... I don't think so! You need to modernise and move way ahead. Especially if you want to learn to master well. Sound production has moved forward since the Beatles too. As I have said before Beatles recordings are pretty bad compared to the finest we have done since. They did well for the time yes but compared to the finest technical we could do now, not even close!

I think you are a bit narky with me!!
 
No I don't think sound production has moved ahead, I hate the clean productions of today.
As for drummers, were talking about artistic expression and nobody could play the drums like moony.
As for pop music what is there today that is any good, name me something!!  I didn't mind Goyte last hit but its all folk/pop/rock drenched in Reverb, I keep up to date Jeff.
 
Don't take me for a fool, I know you are narky because I said you didn't appreciate your degrees like I did mine.
 
Next thing you will say you like One Direction.
 
I get it your a purist but Jazz just does not cut it, Jazz is for serious musician's.
POP/Rock is music for the people and can be as good if not better than some serious "music"
Sgt Pepper to this day is still being analysed by serious musicologists.
 
And Revolver is one of the most amazing peices of experimental recording ever and it still sounds fresh.
 
So I will stick to the past and try and marry it with the future.
 
Another argument against your statement is why are trying to emulate equipment from that era, I am trying to keep the production techniques alive.
 
And I know a few "serious" musos who agree with me and not Jazz but Classical!!!
 
Jeff don't get pissed at me because I said respect yoursef and your education more.
 
We are, sorry, you don't have a Masters, at a Masters level we are part of the academic class and it is my obligation to provide moral fortitude when I believe it is lacking esp in my field of expertise.  People hate me for this but hey people hate me for all sorts of things because I have commitment, belief and confidence in that belief, that's what belief is all about.
 
You know I like you and count you amongst one of my digital friends around these parts but I will not sit here and be lectured by anyone about music and musicology, I consider myself an expert on this, I see the great dots that connect our music, we can hear all sorts of connections if you know what you are listening for.
 
You can kick my arse to kingdom come, you have a proper music degree, I am jealous.  I have a cornflake packet degree from JMC that taught ne **** all to **** all.
 
My Masters on the other hand is a serious proper degree and well respected.
 
I have been thinking about going and getting a proper music degree from UTAS and I have never in my life met a bunch of more elitist fairy dust in my life.  It breaks my heart.
 
I hear the great universe sing symphony's, I hear the stars heart break.
 
I have preyed to my god to grant me my power one last time, so I can be forgiven for wasting my great talent, it has been granted, so watch this space.
 
Sorry Jeff don't rile me, I am THE ANGRY BATTLE DWARF, I was designed for one thing, well, actually I was designed for lots of things but I am a battering ram and I will never be pushed around by such poppycock.
 
This is another thing people find confronting, that is awareness of ones self and what they are here for and what they can achive.  It scares people so much they use all sorts of wepons to try and tear you down.
 
Guess what not even I am impervious to this, I have shed many tears in my life because I don't understand why people just don't get it.  Life is easy and we all make it hard because we get jealous or we want to be top dog.
 
I don't know anything but thats better than nothing!!!
 
Neb

I hear my own song Jeff and I am going to follow it, listening to Baba O'Reily right now.

Thats why I refuse to be a recording engineer, I am not going to listen to some young whipersnapper try and tell me about music.

That's why I prefer mastering all I have to do the finishing touches.

And you missed the point!!

I don't know anything but thats better than nothing!!!

My Masters does mean nothing and I am taking this from Plato's Republic which most wouldn't understand, I am part of the academic class, yes my Masters is worth very little but I understand my obligations as an educated man, something you seem to have not understood.

Neb

Kalle Rantaaho


I highly appreciate Moon and Bonham, but I do see Jeffs point.

The number of very, very skilled musicians  today is just unbelievable, in all genres.
Most of them will never have any part in "creating an institution" the way those two and some of their colleagues had in their time, even though they are skilled enough to copycat the veterans brilliantly, and technically outplay the idols 10 to 1. Had Moon or Bonham ever gotten BIG if they had ended up playing in a mainstream rock band? Had they been able to adjust their style?
It's the whole package, I believe. Moon got the frames of greatness from Townsend and Entwistle and vice versa. IMO Zak Starkey did a marvellous job with the Who.

We have a very good musical education system in Finland, and we have excellent instrumentalists sitting (unemployed) on every bench. Educated guys who can jump in a studio session reading music prima vista as well as be convincing on stage.

For the classical "rock greatness" ... you don't need to be a virtuoso, you need to be with the right guys in the right place playing the right kind of music in the right time, be good enough, have personality and a style, something of your own ...

You are exactly right I can't pronounce your name but this has nothing to do with what your saying and more to do with top dog nerdyniess. Without the outstanding writing abilities of Townsend and production skills of page we would not know who these people are but this large ship has a number of beta boys who think they are capt.


Jeff has been offended because I said he did not understand education and his obligations. Let's get this straight and jeff has brought this upon himself he does not use Sonar does not like Sonar and has a number of sponsorship deals with other DAW manufacture. He has been pushing studio one upon me like a used car salesman and I own the cut down entry program. It is crap. Jeff hangs out in this forum because we are the strongest most knowledgable forum in DAW land IMHO.  If needed I can print his last pm to me to prove we have a rat amongst the ranks. 


Here in Oz we are a small and parochial industry I have many enimes and now have a new one I don't care I prefer integrity to eating. I have offered concessions I don't know anything but it is better than nothing.


Jeff is part of the old guard who don't quite understand the future but because he earns a decent wage somewhere in the vicinity of 60 thousand to 80 thousand he protects himself whilst nothing new is taught or no new knowledge is gained by his students.


Jeff comes across all contrite but he knows zip when it comes to digital audio he may understand analogue audio beyond me and I concede that but his primary concern is his pocket.


Take this as you will my large nation of friends but if a person who does not use our software but hangs out and pretends to use our software we call him a rat.


Jeffrey I will bring you down I warned u ad because you are a small spec in the universe with nothing to offer I am left with no choice go hang with those who pay you don't come here and pretend you are some paragon of virtue when you are a stooge and a rat.


Fight me if you will andi will only grow stronger


Neb

You make me laugh Ben That post is so funny. Buffoonery is allowed here after all it is the Coffee House. I think you may be talking about yourself perhaps. Be careful you might self destruct.

I understand Plato's Republic, yes. You clearly do not. Plato's Republic is not a description of how the world actually *is*. It's a series of hypothetical explorations of different ways societies *could* be ordered.

John T


I understand Plato's Republic, yes. You clearly do not. Plato's Republic is not a description of how the world actually *is*. It's a series of hypothetical explorations of different ways societies *could* be ordered.

I get that but I live by that order hence I'm the jerk around here I don't care if it's just a hypothesis I live by those principals

The idea that it's "the educated that vote and make the rules" isn't a principle that one person can unilaterally choose to live by. Either you're in a society that is ordered that way or you aren't.

BenMMusTech

Jeff Evans




You make me laugh Ben That post is so funny. Buffoonery is allowed here after all it is the Coffee House. I think you may be talking about yourself perhaps. Be careful you might self destruct.

Ok I will publish your last pm in the morning I can't at the moment because I'm on tablet but everything you said I have so your reputation is shot. Don't use sonar Ben blah blah you don't use sonar and want people to switch daw I have the pm I will publish in the morning.

Neb

Please don't. 
 
1) it's socially inappropriate to publikly publish a Private Message without the express permission of the one who sent it and all of the recipients.
 
2) this is just another senseless argument.  Nothing good can come from this.  Ben, you were trying to get people to STOP arguing in the thread upstairs, but here you're provoking Jeff and continuing argumentative posts.

Your arguing here is subjective to your opinions.  You've stated your opinions, there's no need to start airing "dirty laundry." 

And what does Jeff have to do with whether you like Bonham  and Moon anyways?

There are a lot of good drummers out there...wish I was one...

IBTL....someones gonna get banded ..