Bub 
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Re:It's a tough choice -- but the worse bug in Sonar X1d is....
2012/04/18 15:59:53
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ampfixer
Unpredictability. Big word, but the only one that I can think of. I never seem to find problems that can be explained or clearly identified. Random weirdness in the Pro Channel is the biggest area. Last night I was working on a bass track. Midi notes driving the Kontakt engine using the Scarbee MM bass. All I did was substitute compressors in the Pro Channel, trying to find the best one. No note edits at all. Suddenly the pitch of my bass track went sharp and out of tune with no assignable cause.
The Pro Channel will stop processing signals although the meters all indicate activity.
Very occassionally, I'll open a project and it becomes corrupted on the spot and won't recognize the audio interface.
There are a number of these very random issues that scare me off from being too adventurous with X1. It's likely pilot error but my page count for manuals and addendums is up around 5,000 and I'll never get time to read half of them.
I have a lot of problems with the PC very similar to what you stated here, but I don't believe that is the case on all systems, otherwise they would have been forced to address it. Know what I mean? My opinion on this is, X1 needs a much newer system to run on than what the System Requirements state.
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BEATZM1D10T
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Re:It's a tough choice -- but the worse bug in Sonar X1d is....
2012/04/18 16:15:12
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Bub
ampfixer
Unpredictability. Big word, but the only one that I can think of. I never seem to find problems that can be explained or clearly identified. Random weirdness in the Pro Channel is the biggest area. Last night I was working on a bass track. Midi notes driving the Kontakt engine using the Scarbee MM bass. All I did was substitute compressors in the Pro Channel, trying to find the best one. No note edits at all. Suddenly the pitch of my bass track went sharp and out of tune with no assignable cause.
The Pro Channel will stop processing signals although the meters all indicate activity.
Very occassionally, I'll open a project and it becomes corrupted on the spot and won't recognize the audio interface.
There are a number of these very random issues that scare me off from being too adventurous with X1. It's likely pilot error but my page count for manuals and addendums is up around 5,000 and I'll never get time to read half of them.
I have a lot of problems with the PC very similar to what you stated here, but I don't believe that is the case on all systems, otherwise they would have been forced to address it. Know what I mean?
My opinion on this is, X1 needs a much newer system to run on than what the System Requirements state.
I've installed X1 on an old XP laptop of mine that doesn't even come close to the system requirements and haven't had any weird issues. It just takes a bit longer to switch screensets, mix down, and obviously my unfrozen plug-in/track count drops.
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cliffr
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Re:It's a tough choice -- but the worse bug in Sonar X1d is....
2012/04/18 19:27:27
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mleghorn
I'm away from my DAW -- on a business trip. When I get back I'll try out everyone's suggestions.
One more argument that this is a bug: I've only observed this behavior with z3ta2.1 and Sylenth. It doesn't happen with any of the U-He synths. Perhaps it has to do with how patch change commands vary among synths.
Hi Mike, can you provide a copy of the project or MIDI file ?. I'm fairly certain this is not a bug. I've had exactly the same before, and it was not a bug - I just can't remember exactly what the solution was. The fact you've only observed this with z3ta and sylenth could be used as an argument that it is NOT a bug, rather than it is. If you can upload the project or MIDI file, I'm quite happy to help you nail this down, and quite confident that there is a valid reason and fix for what's plagueing you here. Cheers - Cliff
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Cactus Music
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Re:Unexpected Program Patch Change
2012/04/18 21:29:26
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There is no embedded data to cause this. Its an anomaly of X1.
This is not exactly true. I have had this same issue with Sonar 7 and 8.5. Downloaded MIDI files do have embeded PG change info that does not always show in Sonars events list. Just load the same file into Cubase or even any simple midi editing software and you'll see what I mean.
A quick fix is to slip edit the begining of the track to the first note, The PG info ( hidden) is always in the first measure. BUT, Sometimes there are also changes in the middle of the song...So I use other software to delete the pesky event. Dozens of times.
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Unexpected Program Patch Change
2012/04/19 00:28:41
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I have done quite a bit of work with midi files in Sonar 8.5 assigning the tracks out to high quality external instruments etc and printing midi files with them playing the music etc.
It may not have a bearing on this but I found that at the top of a lot of midi files were quite a lot of information that either stopped some virtual instruments from working at all or doing funny things to my external instruments.
I found the first time I went to the event list none of that info was displayed only the note info so it looks like the track is clear at the start. But if you scroll the event list down a little and back up to the top I found all the header info suddenly re appeared and I was able to easily delete it.
Cactus I have never had to go into another program to clean up midi files like this and get rid of unwanted info. But I had to do the scroll down and up thing to make it visable though. It must be a little Sonar bug. The event list is one of the great features I really like about Sonar. It might be just me but give it a try. I only discovered it by accident anyway.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Unexpected Program Patch Change
2012/04/19 02:19:06
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One other possibility is embedded Sysex data that is sent automatically. Such as a GM reset or similar. I would imagine that will create havoc with a non GM synth such as z3ta+
You wouldn't necessarily see it by default in the event list either. Have a look at the filters set in that view and see what that reveals.
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John
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Re:Unexpected Program Patch Change
2012/04/19 02:56:59
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cliffr
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Re:Unexpected Program Patch Change
2012/04/22 07:57:32
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Hi Mike,
have you had a chance to look further at this yet ?.
One other suggestion with z3ta ... check the MIDI configuration file, under Options - "Show MIDI Configuration File".
Just to make sure you haven't inadvertantly "MIDI Learned" something which is causing this.
It's easier to do than you might think :-)
It even gives you a hint that this can cause you problems on page 62 of the user guide under "Midi Learn".
Check it out just in case.
Cheers - Cliff
i7-950 24 GB, GTX 580, W7/64 Ultimate, Sonar Platinum, Alesis MasterControl, KRK Rokit RP8g2s Some Real piano, basses, and guitars, Komplete 8Ultimate, Ibanez guitars, MusicLab RG/Strat/LPC, Trilian, Omnisphere, RMX, EWQL SO Platinum, Pianos, Choirs, VOP, Gypsy, Goliath, SD2, MOR, Ra, HS, HB, too many plugs, Midi controllers, and all kinds of weird gadgets My Soundclick Page
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mleghorn
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SOLVED:It's a tough choice -- but the worse bug in Sonar X1d is....
2012/06/25 16:03:56
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fwrend
EDIT: Okay after looking, I'm not sure it will have any affect but it is in Preferences/Project/MIDI - two check boxes under Other Options: 1. Zero Controllers When Play Stops & 2. Patch/Controller Searchback Before Play Starts.
That fixed the problem! Now I can use z3ta2 and Sylenth without any worries about random patch changes! Thanks!
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:SOLVED:It's a tough choice -- but the worse bug in Sonar X1d is....
2012/06/25 16:12:39
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What are you saying? The worst bug in Sonar is user error? 
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:SOLVED:It's a tough choice -- but the worse bug in Sonar X1d is....
2012/06/25 16:22:09
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 Don't you just love it....... mleghorn - better change title of thread
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mleghorn
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Re:SOLVED:It's a tough choice -- but the worse bug in Sonar X1d is....
2012/06/25 17:10:00
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FastBikerBoy
What are you saying? The worst bug in Sonar is user error?
I apologize for rushing to judgement and calling this a bug. It's not a bug. Calling it user error seems too harsh to me. This issue got a lot of people scratching their heads and offering up a myriad of things to try. I'm thankful that one of those things turned out to be the solution.
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bladetragic
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Re:Unexpected Program Patch Change
2012/06/25 17:16:07
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I still haven't heard anyone from Cakewalk comment on the copy/paste synth automation bug/broken function yet.
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FastBikerBoy
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Mystic38
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Re:Unexpected Program Patch Change
2012/06/25 19:00:02
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SToons
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Re:Unexpected Program Patch Change
2012/06/25 19:06:40
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FastBikerBoy
One other possibility is embedded Sysex data that is sent automatically. Such as a GM reset or similar. I would imagine that will create havoc with a non GM synth such as z3ta+
You wouldn't necessarily see it by default in the event list either. Have a look at the filters set in that view and see what that reveals.
Agreed, which is why it's a good idea to enable "Always ask before sending sysex data" in Global Options. If this had been enabled and the problem was sysex data then it would have been obvious from the beginning. I don't understand why it isn't set this way as default when installed. I also saw others mention the event inspector but that would only identify individual notes assigned to different channels and only if they were selected individually therefore identifying the problem with this method would be crazy. Opening the Event List would identify the issue much quicker. And as far as I know you cannot insert channel change messages with the event inspector either. You could select notes and assign them to a specific channel but not insert a channel change message.
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chuckebaby
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Re:Unexpected Program Patch Change
2012/06/25 19:17:06
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you know he could have said this aint working and scurried away with his tail between his legs,but he did admit it wasnt a bug and that this was the fix,
"that in my opinion took alot to admit.
so even though this is one of the funnier posts of the day.glad its fixed.
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