Dropouts adjusting Pro Channel EQ as well as other random dropouts (Engine Stops)

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Beepster
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Re:Dropouts adjusting Pro Channel EQ as well as other random dropouts (Engine Stops) 2012/05/14 00:32:54 (permalink)
Well... it kind of did.
hmm...
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Beepster
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Re:Dropouts adjusting Pro Channel EQ as well as other random dropouts (Engine Stops) 2012/05/14 00:35:22 (permalink)
Okay... so no actual spaces between paragraphs but I'll take what I can get. Also the quick reply thingie seems to cause an error when you use html. Whoops. Hopefully I didn't send any admins scurrying. If so, sorry.
#32
Beepster
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Re:Dropouts adjusting Pro Channel EQ as well as other random dropouts (Engine Stops) 2012/05/14 18:26:42 (permalink)
Okay... so I called CW Tech Support about the XId Upgrade but I'll get to that later. While I had them on the phone I asked about this dropout issue and he recommended the buffer increase as well however he said it really should not have been dropping out the way it was or when it was (when I was adjusting ProChannel's EQ). Anyway he told me how to get at those controls (figured I might as well get directions straight from him) and I increased the buffer rate to 512 samples (not exactly sure what that means but I'll read up on it later). So now in the drivers settings dialogue I see the following.


ASIO Reported Latencies: (includes buffer and hardware latencies)
Input: 12.6 msec. 557 samples
Output: 12.6 msec. 557 samples
Total Roundtrip: 25.3 msec. 1114 samples


Is that considered "good" latency?
I am currently at 44kHz but will want to increase that eventually when I start recording so I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

Also I see a setting labeled "Audio Driver Bit Depth" with a greyed out box next to it that says "24" and beside that a checkbox (unchecked) saying "64-bit Double Precision Engine". Seeing as how this is a 64 bit system and a 64 bit Sonar install Should that be checked.

Sorry for all the questions. I just don't want anymore problems as I work through the tutorials. Cheers!
#33
John
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Re:Dropouts adjusting Pro Channel EQ as well as other random dropouts (Engine Stops) 2012/05/14 19:00:28 (permalink)
Those latencies are middling at best. Here is the point of latency. Latency is the lag of audio do to processing or because one is using a driver that is not meant to have low latency. MME is a driver mode that is not meant to have low latency. ASIO is a low latency driver so is WDM. 

Latency only matters if one is recording audio and needs to hear the output while recording for comping for example. It also effects soft synths. If you are only playing back a project that is not recording and not needing to be in sync to what you are recording than it doesn't matter what the latency is.  Example Media Player has a lot of latency but it doesn't matter because its only playing back.

A DAW needs low latency due to the need to hear sound with as little delay as is possible.

Some people get it down to 2 ms or even less. 
A good rule of thumb is 1 ms equals one foot away from the source. 20 ms would be 20 feet away from the speaker. Some people are more sensitive to latency than others. Thus they need a lower latency. The range of 5 to 12 ms is for most people  just fine. 

Also some use WDM drivers which is a Microsoft driver model that X1 supports. it has the advantage of low latency plus X1 can adjust the buffer for it from within the program. Often times when one has a choice its a good idea to try both drivers to see which works best.

With my system I use WDM because of the convenience of adjusting the latency. For me ASIO and WDM work about the same with the interface I use.

Disregard this. There is another type of latency called DNS which is part of the system of Windows. High DNS latency can cause all sorts of audio glitching in a DAW. It needs to around 100ms or lower.

  It is wrong information see the post below.
 

 
post edited by John - 2012/05/14 21:07:23

Best
John
#34
Beepster
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Re:Dropouts adjusting Pro Channel EQ as well as other random dropouts (Engine Stops) 2012/05/14 19:29:10 (permalink)
Thanks again, John. He mentioned something about a possible hardware conflict but I'm not sure what it could be. The system is souped up and Sonar says the Layla is an acceptable i/o. The Layla is however quite old so perhaps that's what is causing the problem. As I said I'd like to upgrade to a MOTU or something but I just don't have the cash. I am certainly a fella who would notice latency. When I was playing around with my padKontrol in the FLstudio demo on my crappy laptop the latency was AWFUL but I found the fix was to install ASIO4all. Not sure if that would work in this instance. However just off the top of my head an elbow grease work around could be to crank the buffer while mixing and then lower it when recording while only using some basic bed tracks with minimal effects on playback. I still haven't tried anything with the new settings just yet as I'm having a high pain day (too much sitting hunched over the computers this week) so I'll check it out tomorrow.
Aside from that I managed to update to X1d rather easily. The instructions were confusing me because of the "EasyFix" issues but apparently that doesn't apply for my install. Better safe than sorry though.

I also asked them about why those freebie tutorials weren't downloading for me and they said they might have expired and they'd email me some fresh links... which sadly they did not but I'm gonna email them to see if I can get that going.

I'm glad I signed up for these forums. Just poking around today and last night I've learned a ton. Hopefully once I get my feet wet a bit I can contribute some insights. I learn things a little differently than most and sometimes catch little tricks others wouldn't. But for now I'm still a complete greenhorn.

Again, many thanks for all your help. I'll be poking around for a while longer tonight if the pain pills don't knock me on my ass.
#35
don4777
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Re:Dropouts adjusting Pro Channel EQ as well as other random dropouts (Engine Stops) 2012/05/14 20:06:09 (permalink)
There is another type of latency called DNS which is part of the system of Windows. High DNS latency can cause all sorts of audio glitching in a DAW. It needs to around 100ms or lower.



John,

I think I must have missed something.  Can you explain the relationship between DNS latency and audio.  I'm assuming that you are talking about Domain Name Server.  How can that affect audio?  How about all of the machines that aren't even attached to the Internet?

Can you elaborate?

Thanks,
Don


#36
John
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Re:Dropouts adjusting Pro Channel EQ as well as other random dropouts (Engine Stops) 2012/05/14 21:03:21 (permalink)
Man did I screw up DPC latency is what I am talking about. You can check it with This and read about it too.

 I am very sorry for giving the wrong information here.
Thank you for pointing out my mistake Don! This is important

Best
John
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don4777
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Re:Dropouts adjusting Pro Channel EQ as well as other random dropouts (Engine Stops) 2012/05/14 22:17:41 (permalink)
Thanks John.  I can stop scratching my head now.  The world makes sense again. 
#38
Beepster
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Re:Dropouts adjusting Pro Channel EQ as well as other random dropouts (Engine Stops) 2012/05/14 22:23:11 (permalink)
Okay... so I just went nutsoid with the padKontrol and Session Drummer 3. It was driving me CRAZY that I couldn't map the pads into a usable kit setup. I opened X1, loaded up SD (which took a couple of tries because I forgot the procedure since I last time did it) and hit F1 like a madman which didn't work until I opened up SD3's mixer and F1 brought up the tut there. FINALLY I could see the Help menu for SD3. So I read through it to see if I could find a proper "Learn" function and there was nothing. There was however a list of CC#s for a kit set up.

Okay fine... I'll attempt to set the pads on the pK following that. Well I guess because I had just done the X1d update all my MIDI settings were gone and I wasn't getting any sound nor was it recognizing the pK. So I set all that back up.

Okay... I have sound and the pK is being recognized making random sounds when I hit the pads. Cool enough. Now keep in mind I have NEVER set up the MIDI notes on the pK before. Totally new piece of gear to me. So I peck away at the bugger until I figure out pressing the Program button + CC#note button puts me in program mode. Now I can hit a pad and the CC# displays on the pK while previewing the sound. COOL! Now I can just turn the knobby thing and change the CC# for the individual pads.

So I set the pad I want to be the Kick drum to the CC# in the SD3 help topic chart (I had the Zeppelin Dry Kit loaded as I couldn't find the mysterious kit eluded to in said chart). It gives me a tom sound (which I initially mistook for a kick sound... a crappy one). So then I try the snare CC# which provided me with a bell or some crap (I forget now but it sure as hell wasn't a snare). Okay... obviously something is wrong and I have to abandon my current method of mapping.

So at this point I decide to just start cycling through the CC# notes using the knob to hunt for the sounds I want for the individual pads. Stroke of genius really and I got a few pads set that way... until... I went too low and triggered a loop... that would NOT stop playing even though I was frantically turn dials and mashing buttons like a cornered monkey.

Then I got the engine crash message again and everything stopped dead. Whoops. So I shut down Sonar and started over again with the knowledge that some of those CC#'s will trigger loops. After I started mapping again using my random method I realized that SD3's GUI was visually showing what was being played as I cycled through the notes... and I facepalmed... hard.

Mapped out the kit the way I wanted, slapped out some beats and called it a day.

And now you have an insight into how insane derper Beepster figures things out when he doesn't have a proper manual.

lulz...
#39
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