Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1?

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Beepster
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2012/05/14 19:40:21 (permalink)

Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1?

I'd like to get something for my laptop to capture live multi track recordings which I could then toss into X1 on my big system. I know I could use Reaper but I have a feeling that might be a pain in the butt and I'd have to learn a new platform. I've only got an AMD dual core E300 (1.66) and 3 GBs RAM on this thing. Is is this possible?
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    John
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/14 20:00:58 (permalink)
    Try X1 Essential. But before you do that see if the version you have now will run on your laptop first.   If it does you have it made.



    Best
    John
    #2
    soens
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/14 20:01:15 (permalink)
    Why not just install X1 on it and see how it goes? It should run just fine. Uninstall if it's not to your liking.
     
    You can choose not to install many of the extras like samples and instruments if you're just going to record audio on it. If find you need them you can install them later.
     
    Steve
    post edited by soens - 2012/05/14 20:07:51
    #3
    Beepster
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/14 20:17:56 (permalink)
    Thanks for the replies. However from what I understand I'm only supposed to run X1 on one system at a time which normally I wouldn't care about but I don't wanna screw around with my my CW registration stuff. The real issue though is this system doesn't meet the specs. I installed the demo version on it when I was scouting DAWs before my purchase and it was definitely dogging so I don't think that'll work. I just checked the specs for Essential and it wants 2.6Ghz (with a small h) and my processor is 1.66 GHz (with a big H). Would that work? Not sure if hertz work the same as bits and bytes as far as the capitals in abbreviations meaning MORE. Sorry... brain is looped from pain meds. My apologies if this sounds wacky. Meds are making me stupid right now. Cheers.
    #4
    soens
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/14 20:44:10 (permalink)
    True, the EULA forbids running more than one instance at a time, but there's nothing wrong with recording tracks on one system and afterward copying the project to the other for editing, etc. Many here do that all the time.
     
    Your system sounds just like my old laptop and it worked fine for me. I don't think you should have to buy Essential if you already have Studio or Producer.That just doesn't make sense to me.
     
    You could also use a multitrack wave recorder like Audacity http://audacity.sourceforge.net/. It's free.
     
    Steve
    #5
    Fog
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/14 20:55:53 (permalink)
    you can put sonar on say 2-3 machine, just not run them all at the same time.. a lot will have 2 rigs

    1 laptop and a main desktop

    you don't state what your using as an audio interface either, since you say you want to do multi track at the same time, I'm assuming it's something that'll support that. upping the latency might help also..

    have a look at crucial.com for the memory for your laptop, I doubt it'd be that much I went from 4-8 gb on mine and it was hhm £40-50 .. I got the spec off cruical and bought it off ebuyer.com (not to be confused with ebay etc) .. of course stick with the 3gb IF your running a 32 bit OS.

    have a look at
    http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR/X1-Producer/feature.aspx/SONAR-X1-Comparison-Chart
    and
    http://www.cakewalk.com/products/SONAR/SONAR%20X1-Comp-Chart.pdf

    the HD your using also, is 1 drive.. so make sure that is defragged.. I use

    http://www.filehippo.com/download_defraggler/

    (ccleaner and speccy are also good to get)

    I jumped ship from AMD chips when they were causing me headaches as opposed to their intel counterparts.


    #6
    John
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/14 21:11:34 (permalink)
    Soens and Fog are 100 % right. CW lets us install X1 on more than one computer as long as we do not use them at the same time. This is only meant to prevent sharing X1 with others. Your X1 is for your use only.

    Best
    John
    #7
    Beepster
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/14 21:48:52 (permalink)
    That's great guys. Very helpful. Sorry I dropped out of the thread for a while but I went into crazy guy mode and decided to force a specific issue that had been bugging me. Mapping my padKontrol to work the way I want with SD3 which resulted in a crash at first but I got it to work eventually. However I'll detail that in the other thread I've got going about engine stops.

    However the info here is very helpful. I was a little annoyed that I might be expected to limit my $500+ purchase to one system. I would like to see if I can get it to run in my old rackmount workstation and a portable rig if possible (even if I do have to buy a new laptop eventually). It's just good to know that it won't cause registration problems or something.

    I've contemplated just getting a ZOOM for certain things as well but that's even more money. I'll sort it out.

    To really experiment with X1 on my laptop as a recording tool though I will have to get a USB i/o which I need to do anyway as I'm really starting to think the Layla 3G is causing some (or all) of my woes... but again... that is a cashflow issue.

    Thanks for the info and I'm off to update my crash thread with what I just messed around with as John and I seem to have a nice convo going on there. Peace.
    #8
    konradh
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/15 09:47:43 (permalink)
    I avoid connecting my audio PC to the Internet and have a small laptop for email, etc. My plan is to install X1 on the laptop to sketch out ideas while traveling.

    We shall see, but I think I will be OK by only installing X1 and RealGuitar which should be enough to start a basic track.  I will leave Vienna, Hollywood, Ivory II and other large libraries off.  (I also don't want to carry around the iLok and eLicenser.  Losing those would be a pain.)  I may need to limit the number of plug-ins used, but for writing, that shouldn't matter.

    I will post later and let you know how it goes.
    #9
    Beepster
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/15 17:53:28 (permalink)
    Right on guys. Maybe I'll give it a try at some point to experiment.

    @konradh... Connecting your audio rig to the net shouldn't be any kind of problem if you use proper internet hygiene. I'm not very knowledgeable about DAW stuff but I know quite a bit about keeping a system locked down tight on the intertubes. It's all about the right AV/Antimalware tools and only limiting yourself to trusted sites. For example I do keep my studio rig isolated as much as possible but going to the Cakewalk store shouldn't be any kind of issue if you have the right ScriptBlockers and stuff. I have a whole internet hygiene system that I've cobbled together from various techs over the years. If you are interested I could give you a rundown. For now I'll say... NEVER use IE if at all possible.
    #10
    keith
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/15 18:30:34 (permalink)
    If you need to capture many I/O's live, make sure your laptop has a decent USB implementation, if that's your chosen path. Or, if you have an ExpressCard 34/54 slot (most lower end laptops don't these days), then you could plug a good firewire port on their and go for a firewire iface. If you just need something USB, 2 inputs, dead simple, you could go decent prosumer with a unit like this for $200: http://www.m-audio.com/pr...n_us/FastTrackPro.html ... or $270 for the Roland Quad Capture etc. If you go under $200... like the M-Audio MobilePre at $150 then you start running into limitations, like max 48kHz, etc. If X1 doesn't run well on that system, try Cakewalk Music Creator 6. I'm totally serious... DO NOT LAUGH! It's like a stripped down SONAR, but it's just the stuff you need, and none of the stuff you don't. That being said, if X1 doesn't run well on that machine, then MC6 may not either, as it uses the same audio engine core (or some recent version of it). Worth downloading the demo to check it out... also, it's only $20 freaking dollars on sale currently.
    #11
    Beepster
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/15 18:59:42 (permalink)
    @keith... good to know. I'm actually looking at the Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 right now (have another thread going about it) so that should cover my i/o. Sadly no expansion slot on this laptop but the 8i6 is USB anyway. I'd have to learn more about this USB implementation you speak of however I was able to get my padKontrol working with FLstudio on the laptop after installing ASIO4all to get rid of the latency I was experiencing at first so maybe that is a good sign. Thanks for mentioning MC6. I was actually looking at that the other day out of curiosity but not necessarily for this application. As well I was thinking maybe there is a way to install X1 in a very basic setup as well but the MC6 solution might be a better option. Cheers!
    #12
    soens
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/15 19:43:10 (permalink)
    MC6 is very stripped and uses a slightly different GUI. I couldn't find a feature set for it so # of MIDI/audio tracks is unknown.
    http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/musiccreator/feature.aspx/Create-music-in-Music-Creator-6
     
    For the first time I've seen, Cake is offering Sonar X1 LE as a download and it uses the same GUI so there's no relearning curve. I coudn't find the system requirements for it though.
    http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONARLE/feature.aspx/About-SONAR-LE
     
    Right now you can get them both on sale for the same price $19.99. 
    At that price you could get both. I'm sure Cake wouldn't mind.
     
    Steve
    #13
    syntheticpop
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/15 19:58:24 (permalink)
    Beepster, someone on here mentioned the Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 does not work well with X1 for some reason.


    #14
    Beepster
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/15 20:25:32 (permalink)
    @soens... Thanks. I didn't know X1 LE was available for purchase on its own. I'll log that into the memory banks. And that is an excellent price. Hell... if I had know I might have bought that first to wrap my head around X1 before plonking the $500 on it but I am happy I did. For live stuff I'd be looking at a standard eight input setup. I probably would have to get a slightly better laptop to make it pro style but that's more research for another day.
    @syntheticpop

    hmm... that's a little disturbing but doesn't really make much sense. An i/o is an i/o AFAIK (hey... I'm a poet! lol). Might just be a conflict with all the fancy extras that come with it or maybe that user had the wrong drivers/settings or something. I will however scour the tubes to see what that's all about and maybe see if I can get a hold of Focusrite's presale support (if it even exists) and CW support to get their opinion. Perhaps they've got something in there to bug out with Sonar because they seem to have a deal with Ableton, but if that's the case... well hardware manufacturers should not dick around like that. It's sleazy. I've got a couple of weeks before I toss any money at a new i/o (if at all) so thanks for the heads up. I will certainly look into it.
    #15
    chuckebaby
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/15 20:53:09 (permalink)
    Beepster


    That's great guys. Very helpful. Sorry I dropped out of the thread for a while but I went into crazy guy mode and decided to force a specific issue that had been bugging me. Mapping my padKontrol to work the way I want with SD3 which resulted in a crash at first but I got it to work eventually. However I'll detail that in the other thread I've got going about engine stops.

    However the info here is very helpful. I was a little annoyed that I might be expected to limit my $500+ purchase to one system. I would like to see if I can get it to run in my old rackmount workstation and a portable rig if possible (even if I do have to buy a new laptop eventually). It's just good to know that it won't cause registration problems or something.

    I've contemplated just getting a ZOOM for certain things as well but that's even more money. I'll sort it out.

    To really experiment with X1 on my laptop as a recording tool though I will have to get a USB i/o which I need to do anyway as I'm really starting to think the Layla 3G is causing some (or all) of my woes... but again... that is a cashflow issue.

    Thanks for the info and I'm off to update my crash thread with what I just messed around with as John and I seem to have a nice convo going on there. Peace.

    please do,would love to hear how you do your mapping mapping.
     
    peace
     

    Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64
    Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GB
    Focusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
       
    #16
    soens
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/15 21:24:34 (permalink)
    Beepster


    @soens... Thanks. I didn't know X1 LE was available for purchase on its own. I'll log that into the memory banks. And that is an excellent price. Hell... if I had know I might have bought that first to wrap my head around X1 before plonking the $500 on it but I am happy I did. For live stuff I'd be looking at a standard eight input setup. I probably would have to get a slightly better laptop to make it pro style but that's more research for another day. 


    A standalone like the Zoom or a Korg D888 is probably the cheapest, easiest way to go. No lugging a bunch of equipement around. Just PlugNPlay, then USB the waves into you DAW. Check 'em out on Ebay. I use the Korg.
    #17
    Beepster
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/15 22:42:10 (permalink)
    @chuckebaby... well, I did update that thread LATE last night and I was burnt right the hell out as well as in epic pain when I typed it but it is a little humorous in the light of day (oh sh*t! It's night again! whoops!) so here's the thread and it's the last comment if you want a laugh.
    http://forum.cakewalk.com..aspx?&m=2570316&mpage=2

    However I'll detail the procedure I used here a little more concisely.

    Get everything opened and set up with X1 and insert Session Drummer 3 (sorry I was gonna detail this process for other users but forgot some important details loading SD. I'm sure you personally don't need info on loading SD but for those who do just look at your X1 manual on how to load Soft Synths or look at the Drum Track tutorial in the CW University section.).

    On the main page of SD (the one with the GUI kit) click the "Programs" button/dropdown menu looking thing (kind of a weird looking button IMO) and that'll bring up your installed kits. I just clicked the Steven Slate folder and went with the "Zep Dry" kit like in one of the CWU tuts you can find on the University page.

    Now my kit is loaded. At this point I really should have taken the time to create a drum bus and have 8 tracks but last night I was just hammering at things like a crazy monkey so I just let it insert itself as a single track. All I wanted to do was learn how to map notes on the pK so it didn't matter.

    So now the meat... I tapped on some buttons and got various sounds. Good. SD3 is working with the pK.

    Then I pressed the "Program" button and the "CC#/note" button on the pK and they both lit up (and STAYED lit up). That means the pK is in program mode and I can now assign CC# to the individual pads.

    There are three knobs on the pK. There are two knobs at the top you can assign parameter values to and an incremental knob off to the left with all the function buttons. That knob on the left is what you use to assign notes (amongst MANY other things depending on the mode the pK is in).

    So now I can hit the pads and the CC# notes being played will show up in the digital display on the pK and on the GUI of SD3 on my computer screen shows which part of the kit the strike is being played on (which is important because you would want to mistake a low tom sample with the kick drum... right?).

    So then I just cycled through the CC# notes with the incremental dial on the pK and kept an eye on the SD3 GUI to see and hear what I was playing on each pad. I like my kicks at the two center bottom pads and my snares on the two center pads just above those so I can do double bass fills and snare rolls without using two fingers on the same pad and so my kick and snare are close to each other.

    So with that in mind I started tapping the center bottom left key of the pK and turning the incremental knob while watching the SD3 GUI to see which notes triggered the kick drum. I remembered the numbers mentally and tried them all out individually until I found the one I liked.

    Now at this point with the pK you don't have to do anything. Just don't turn the incremental knob again and that pad will stay on that note. You just tap the next pad you want to program and start the process again. You want to build your map and then save the entire "scene" within the pK when you are done which is another process altogether.

    That said... I tap the RIGHT center pad (next to the one I just programmed as the kick) and turn the knob until the digital display shows the CC# of the first pad I programmed (because I wanted them to be the same for my double kick setup). So now I have two kicks I can hit with my thumbs.

    I repeated this "doubling" up process with the two pads immediately above the kick buttons except I hunted down the snare sound I liked and used that cc# note instead (using the incremental knob of course).

    From there I set up three toms using the same mapping process but only programmed one per button on the row above the snares (third row from bottom) and using from left to right pads 1 2 and 3 I left the last button of that row for a ride crash sound and the pad below that for an actual ride sound (beside the right snare pad).

    The closed hi hat went beside the left kick (far left bottom row) and the open hi-hat on the pad above it.

    Then I think I tossed a crash up in the top row somwhere but I was getting tired and just wanted to make sure everything worked

    Essentially what that created was a pad based representation of my old drumkit (yup... I played real drums for a while... too old and crotchety now). I will actually need to reconfigure that set up for easier finger playing but the basics will likely stay the same. I also got a little midi pedal with the pK so I can use that as a kick as well which maps the same way so that can be part of my scenes at some point as well.

    If you are curious about the XY controls on it... well, they're cool but they sure as hell aren't very useful for live MIDI drumming as Korg would like you to believe. It IS however an extremely cool thing to have for synths (it works as a joystick controller very well) and using the pK as a DAW control panel (you can bind the pads to specific functions and then use the xy pad to change their parameters... which is where I think I'll really get my money's worth out of this thing).

    I'm not sure how interested people here are about this little device but I do intend on getting together some kind of tut together on it once I master the thing because the instructions are bollocks and it seems pretty much everyone has a hard time learning how to make the buggers work.

    However that was probably very long winded, likely a totally backwards way of doing things and it was a procedure learned under duress by a complete newcomer to MIDI but I'm bored and you asked so there you go.... oh, and I'm not previewing all that crap so forgive any typos or brain farts on my part. Peace.
    #18
    keith
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/16 03:07:35 (permalink)
    soens


    MC6 is very stripped and uses a slightly different GUI. I couldn't find a feature set for it so # of MIDI/audio tracks is unknown.
    http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/musiccreator/feature.aspx/Create-music-in-Music-Creator-6


    They hide the "specs" for some reason. in practice, and according to the intro video, MC6 supports "100+" MIDI and audio tracks... which for practical purpose means, even in the context of the "LE" and low end software, you can record 8+ or whatever tracks, save as CWP and load later into SONAR whatever.
    #19
    konradh
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/16 14:49:25 (permalink)
    Hey, Beepster.  Thanks for letting me know but here is my experience:

    • I have a hardware Firewall/router.
    • I was using the complete Webroot package when clicking an innocent-looking picture seemingly posted by a friend on Facebook initiated a virus that required me to rebuild my system completely.
    • Unhappy with Webroot's failure, I installed Microsoft Security Essentials and, months later, got slammed again by an unknown cause and had to rebuild again.

    I do not download media or visit dangerous sites, so I have no idea how this happened twice while full security was running.

    Now I connect my audio PC to the Internet only when I need to go to a music site for a specific reason (e.g., Cakewalk, NI, etc.), and after every such connection, I run a full scan.  I also have everything back-up on an Acronis partition.  (Of course, I have always kept external copies of projects, but when the whole configuration and software is blown, Acronis can help you restore.)

    You may know more and have a great set-up and I appreciate your kind offer to help.  The laptop only cost me $450, though, and I thought that was cheap compared to shutting down the studio for weeks and rebuilding everything!

    True story:  I woke up one night from a dream that a rabid wolf was in my bedroom even though the doors and windows were all locked.  I got up and checked by PC and it was infected, even though I had not been using the Internet.  This was the second and final incident for me.  Strange, n'est-ce pas?
    #20
    Beepster
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/16 15:22:45 (permalink)
    hmm... yeah, you shouldn't be getting attacked that often but I will say I wouldn't trust Facebook as a "safe" site. It's got tons of intrusive crud built right the site itself but the main concern is the user posted content. Anyone can toss anything on there. It's like 4chan (DO NOT GO TO 4chan!! I'm just using it as an example). Their actual site is probably safer than most but the user content that gets posted can rape your system into the stone age. The thing about the virus taking over your system in the middle of the night could just be the way the virus coder wrote the program. It might have waited until your system time was in the wee hours when you are less likely to be paying attention or it was coded to wait until the system was idle for a long time to attack. That said if you had ZERO AVs installed at any point and were cruising the web... well you're gonna get something eventually. Even with just a standard AV like MSE or Avast things can slip through. I have to write an email to Cake support but I'll keep this in mind and try to type up something for you tonight. I'm not you should hook your system up to the intertubes but these types of things can save the hassle of having to reformat/reinstall on your laptop as well. Also you can get spyware and **** in there that is unnoticeable that just steal passwords, personal info or CC/banking info without damaging your system. Also ad/scriptblockers can make your internet experience not only safer but more pleasant because you don't have annoying pop ups, autorun vids/music and it can make your system much faster because it isn't getting bogged down loading all the useless and invasive crap pretty much all sites incorporate these days. For example... this forum isn't too bad for unnecessary scripts but my script blocker is telling me this page wants to load googleanalytics (google tracking your online habits) and ownerIQ (a market research company that again tracks your info for targeted ads and stuff). I just allow the actual Cakewalk domain and the forum is fully functional so obviously those to scripts/domains aren't needed. Some sites however will have dozens of these scripts trying to do different things to your system and occasionally loading spyware/malware or even viruses. Alright... I'm gonna try to get some other stuff done but as I said, I'll be back with some more info for you or anyone else interested in this stuff. Cheers.
    #21
    Beepster
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    Re:Does CW make a low footprint DAW for low end PCs that intergrates well with X1? 2012/05/16 15:36:54 (permalink)
    Oh and you said you "rebuilt" your system? Like you physically took it apart? That shouldn't be necessary for an infection. What you want to do is make an image disk of your system set up the way you like it that you can use in case of catastrophic failures (but you said you have Acronis so you likely have that under control already however Win7 does all that stuff now too so third party software isn't really necessary but is sometimes better). Then just do regular data backups of your files (this way if you restore your system from the image disc but have written files since the image was made you still have a copy of them). If something goes sour you just reformat your hard drives, boot from the image disc and bingo. Your computer is good as new.
    #22
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