M_Glenn_M
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Really, really basic MIDI startup?
Ok I have a song that just needs a few touches. I've been reading about Studio Instruments to add, say a few bass notes or strings. I don't have a midi keyboard controller but don't know what I need and don't want to jump in until I see if I even like the sounds. (I've been strictly audio up to now.) So please dont laugh but.. As a trial entry, what are the basic steps to add an SI Bass? In the Browser I see "Insert Synth" and the drop down choices include a bass but that's as far as I can figure out. I don't even know what to do with the pop up. Then I'll need to know how to add some bass notes as it plays I assume? I'm hoping I can use the mouse or keys until I "get" it and then move to the next level. Thanks in advance.
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garrigus
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Re:Really, really basic MIDI startup?
2012/05/21 21:40:33
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chuckebaby
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Re:Really, really basic MIDI startup?
2012/05/21 21:53:46
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scott is right,you need to read up a little bit on the piano roll,once mastered you can do any of these things you describe and more, see the things is,scotts video will help you big time,his book will help you more. but this is one of those things niether him or i could walk you through,id start with his video,then maybe look into his book, its a "master piece",and i dont use the word "master piece" on the cakewalk forums often.
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garrigus
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Re:Really, really basic MIDI startup?
2012/05/21 21:55:41
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Beepster
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Re:Really, really basic MIDI startup?
2012/05/21 22:00:56
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Woof... I hear ya. Another analog dinosaur trying to figure it out myself. I found it helpful to learn a bit about the basics of MIDI first (and I'm still learning) so I'll just post some links to articles I've found very useful and insightful in helping me wrap my brain around this crud... Old SOS article on basic MIDI concepts in two parts... http://www.soundonsound.c...aug95/midibasics1.html http://www.soundonsound.c...sep95/midibasics2.html Those are old but still insightful. Wish I had more for you but it seems I've neglected my MIDI tuts bookmark menu. Check out some of the Cake vids. Lots of neat stuff there and tons of the guys here are just scary smart as far as VSTs and MIDI stuff so cruise the forums. There is a very cool MIDI bass thingy within Producer though... This video fro Cake might help too... http://www.youtube.com/wa...34K3VE&feature=related
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Really, really basic MIDI startup?
2012/05/21 22:10:48
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I HIGHLY recommend you look into purchasing one of these babies: http://www.korg.com/microkey I bought the 37 key mini one for $110 Australian, so it should be around the $100 ish mark in the US. Super cheap. They are really great quality for the price too. I'm super impressed. Very compact also. The keys are mini though, so if you're used to playing a full sized piano or you have big hands, it make take a little getting used to. I have average/biggerish sized hands though and I adjusted pretty quickly. I actually prefer it for synth stuff. It's just USB too so plug and play. No issues at all. Simple as you can possibly get. They'll make testing out and learning synths so much more productive. I've done the mouse thing before and it's so tedious that you can't really focus on being creative.
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Beepster
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Re:Really, really basic MIDI startup?
2012/05/21 22:12:16
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Oh and you can use X1 to just write notes into the "Staff View" which has tablature options which will play/record the notes to a VST such as a Bass synth. That way you can avoid the piano roll and step sequencer stuff which takes a bit of getting used to. How to translate the tab or notation you have written to the Staff view into a final MIDI performance/recording is beyond my grasp at the moment but that would probably be far easier than piano roll for writing purposes. Once it's written though you can choose any instrument you have on your system to replay it.
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M_Glenn_M
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Re:Really, really basic MIDI startup?
2012/05/22 02:24:01
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Thanks everyone. I'll be looking into all your suggestions this week. I want to keep it really, really simple and was looking for a friendly way to approach this confusing and complex subject. I am still firmly stuck in the Audio/performing musician mentality so I don't see inputting note by note at any time soon but rather would need to play along and improvise real-time with the final sound as I would any analogue instrument. Is this even possible? I can't do it like punchcard programming or building a score up note by note lego style. (Step recording?) I don't mind buying a keyboard as that seems to be the preferred method if it comes to that, tho I'm a guitarist and own a MIDI guitar system (GR20). I can't make the GR20 input other than audio without an unacceptable delay, tho lord knows I tried for a week or so. I took the little interface back to the store in failure. I do have Scott's X1 power, tho starting with the Cakewalk Sound Center at page 237 did not make any sense. It seemed like too much like learning a foreign language before becoming a writer in that language.
Producer Exp x1d Win XP, intel Core2 Duo CPU E4600 @ 2.4 GHz, 2 GHz RAM Nvidia gforce 8500 GT BR800 controller , DR880 drum machine. GR20 guitar synth, Alesis QX25 KRK 6 + 10" sub. Sennheiser HD280pro cans 2 Yamaki acoustics, Korean Strat, 60's Jazzmaster, 60's BF Deluxe Reverb,
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Beepster
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Re:Really, really basic MIDI startup?
2012/05/22 02:59:14
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Definitely a MIDI keyboard controller would help. You can pick them up for pretty cheap. Obviously Roland makes some quality ones and I might get in poop for saying this but check out M-Audio's line of small scale keyboard controllers. They have decent little controllers for what it sounds like you want for a little over a hundred bucks (but look into the Roland stuff and other manufacturers as well though). For bass I think it would actually be quite easy to play a part and turn it into a MIDI track as it's usually one analog note being played at a time and there isn't much bending or whatever. Guitar however would be a different story due to chords and the more delicate nature of the instrument. I'm sure you could find a tutorial on how to take an analog bass line and translate it to MIDI notes within Sonar. I however don't have any links for you on that topic. Also if you happen to have any old keyboard laying around that has MIDI in/outs on it you could use that as a controller too provided your audio interface has standard old school MIDI ports as well. For example... until I can afford to pick up a USB MIDI keyboard controller I intend to use my old Yamaha DX-7. But you really should learn about how and why MIDI works and the various ways you can manipulate the data. It's kind of tricky for us flesh and nail musicians at first but it's not all that complicated once you get over the initial learning curve. Then you probably will find yourself wanting to use the piano roll because it's an extremely powerful, universal and well thought out tool for creating music. It's a shame you bailed on that guitar too because once you figured out the basic stuff you probably could have done EXACTLY what you want to do with it. I kind of wish I had one to mess around with if only to learn how they work. Cheers.
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Beepster
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Re:Really, really basic MIDI startup?
2012/05/22 03:04:49
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And if you want to go really cheap you could look into the Korg NanoPad MIDI keyboard controller. Those are around fifty bucks and give you a simple small scale controller that fits on your DAW desk. I think they break easily though and aren't really a full expression type instrument. More for pecking away at things but would be great for simple composing in MIDI.
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Beepster
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Re:Really, really basic MIDI startup?
2012/05/22 03:23:52
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Sorry to keep spamming your thread but it got my little monkey brain thinking about your task. One thing to remember too when choosing a controller for this task is that the guitar only has a three octave range so you can accomplish these things with a small controller. No need to have something that takes up it's own desk. It also got me thinking about how I was intending to use my padKontrol as a transport panel but I just remembered there is a NanoPad transport panel I had forgotten about which I think (if it works properly with X1) would be a better option on my desk. Gotta look into that little device again. Neat stuff.
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Really, really basic MIDI startup?
2012/05/22 03:43:00
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Beepster Sorry to keep spamming your thread but it got my little monkey brain thinking about your task. One thing to remember too when choosing a controller for this task is that the guitar only has a three octave range so you can accomplish these things with a small controller. No need to have something that takes up it's own desk. It also got me thinking about how I was intending to use my padKontrol as a transport panel but I just remembered there is a NanoPad transport panel I had forgotten about which I think (if it works properly with X1) would be a better option on my desk. Gotta look into that little device again. Neat stuff. Speaking of octave ranges, the Korg MicroKey has octave up and down transpose buttons. You can active and hold a chord over one octave, then press the octave down keys a few times and play some bass notes or vice versa. This makes it really easy to fairly quickly play over a full scale or at least experiment with how a synth sounds over different octaves then simply record the two parts separately. If you're not much of a keyboard playing (may may shudder to this suggestion), maybe look for something which allows single semi-tone transposing cause then if you're playing a major or minor scale, you can transpose so you only have to play on the white keys ;) Makes life easy for the non keyboard players out there (me included). That said, you can do this transposing in sonar if you want in real time anyway, so not vital, but makes playing easier. I always struggle with those black keys getting in the way haha... But I'd rather force myself to learn the proper way so I don't use it unless I have to!
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Beepster
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Re:Really, really basic MIDI startup?
2012/05/22 03:49:40
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Oh right. Forgot about the MicroKey stuff. IIRC that's a significant step up from the Nano line and not much more expensive or physically cumbersome. I wonder what Roland has in the way of micro type controllers.
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M_Glenn_M
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Re:Really, really basic MIDI startup?
2012/05/22 11:32:21
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Thanks for the replies guys. So basically it's best to: 1.Learn the theory before starting. 2.Learn about the piano roll mode for input. 3.Buy a decent keyboard controller because otherwise it would be too frustrating to the real-time input creative process. Are the programs included with X1 Pro good enough or is it another one of those "buy a pro package or you'll be disappointed very soon"?
Producer Exp x1d Win XP, intel Core2 Duo CPU E4600 @ 2.4 GHz, 2 GHz RAM Nvidia gforce 8500 GT BR800 controller , DR880 drum machine. GR20 guitar synth, Alesis QX25 KRK 6 + 10" sub. Sennheiser HD280pro cans 2 Yamaki acoustics, Korean Strat, 60's Jazzmaster, 60's BF Deluxe Reverb,
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Beepster
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Re:Really, really basic MIDI startup?
2012/05/22 15:56:31
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I'm still really new to MIDI myself but... 1. Yes definitely. As with most things getting a grasp on concepts and methods is super useful. Check the help topics within X1 and there tons of vids/articles about MIDI online. 2. Yes but you have lots of other options as well. The step sequencer is a little simpler to understand and easier to use and if you need to get finicky with something you can them just open the piano roll and make more finite tweaks. That might be a better option for your bass lines. Also the Matrix is a cool thing you can toss your clips and loops into so you can trigger them in real time and record your song that way. 3. For sure. You may also want to try out some pad style controllers as well. For us non keyboard players they can be a little easier to use for certain things... and they're fun to slap around. Good luck.
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