TysonC
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I may be a crazy person.
[not sure if this should be in "Hardware", but I really like the Coffee House crew, so I'm gonna post it here] Hi, guys! With my microphone/recording situation improving all the time, and my guitar and amp only a few saved pennies away, I'm looking for things to make interesting sounds that are worthy of recording, as well as searching for a hobby to soak up the time that's left over when I get home from work. I love scouring old thrift stores for crappy, lo-fi gear, but that can be a money-pit and there's only so many places to look in any local area. So far I've never gotten what one would consider "lucky" and found a sequencer or a synthesizer tucked in the bottom rack of my local goodwill. At any rate, I want a synthesizer, and I want one that I can play and tweak live. I love softsynths with the burning, white-hot passion of a thousand exploding suns, but I want something to mess around with in the tangible world (I wouldn't ever trust my crappy laptop to be dependable at a show with a MIDI control surface). Anyways, I'll get down to it: I'm gonna embark on the journey of building my own synthesizer & step-sequencer! Of course, I have no knowledge whatsoever of any of that, but if a guy never tries, a guy never has a custom-built noisemachine... Actually, come to think of it, the last time I wired something I fried a Game Boy or two. Reading "Electronics for Dummies" a professional electrician does not make! I digress, however, because I'm sure with a little research nothing is impossible. I want to build a synthesizer that can accept live MIDI input (from a piano-style keyboard) eventually, but for now I want a step-sequencer and a synth so I can do short-loop style acid bass and fun stuff like that. I've looked around the internet, and there's surprisingly few good places to learn about step-sequencers. There's a wealth of knowledge about building synthesizers, and I feel that I can find schematics and diagrams (and explanations of how to read schematics and diagrams with a modicum of understanding) right here on the ol' interweb. Yes, it's really the step sequencer that's giving me problems. I found this old article and diagram for something called the "Baby 8" sequencer that looks like it would fit the bill, plus I've seen videos here and there of it in use, and it looks like it'd do the job for relatively low cost (that is, apparently you can make for $30 what costs $200, which is something I'm truly impressed by). Here's the Baby 8: http://www.dinsync.info/2010/05/diy-8-step-sequencer.html What do you guys think? Is there a better place to start than a step-sequencer and a simple synthesizer? Anybody know better place to find a step-sequencer schematic that's not the Baby 8? Actually, anybody done this sort of thing before? I've seen posts here and there talking about electronics, so you guys probably know a lot more about this than I do... But hey, a learning experience is a learning experience! Well, I'm off. I'd love to hear your thoughts on DIY analogue synthesizers, step-sequencers, and whether or not Han should have shot first. Peace out, gang! TL/DR: I'm building complex electronics with almost no prior experience. Chicks dig synthesizers.
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Beagle
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/24 06:47:55
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I love old analog synths and sequencers. I don't have any because I don't have any need for them in my music. they're way too dated for what I do and would stick out like a sore thumb if I used them. but they are cool!
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Jonbouy
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/24 06:54:14
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Yeah, it's a good thing to do. There are some folk that hang out in the hardware forum that engage in the kind of stuff you are talking about here, but I only know about that because what they talk about goes way over my head. I'm not really into enough to give any good ideas but I do know that I enjoy having the back-off any old gear to see what else I can get it to do, normally my interest wanes when I get a tell-tale puff of blue smoke and any life left in the thing leaves along with the disappearing cloud.  But it's usually fun while it lasts
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Karyn
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/24 06:58:14
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Keep it simple. Make it modular. Start with a very basic oscilator circuit that gives you a beep, LEARN HOW IT WORKS. Use your new knowlege to modify it to give different waves, square, saw, sine, etc. Add an envelope generator, again very simple. Learn how it works... Add a filter. Learn, etc. Designing and building a synth from scratch can be a daunting prospect for even good electronic engineers. But split it down to a modular synth and the individual elements can be very simple circuits. To be honest, probably the hardest part if you want to "play" it as opposed to program it with a step sequence will be connecting a keyboard.
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
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Old55
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/24 08:45:18
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I'm not speaking from experience of building a modular synth, but I have done some reading on the subject. It's one of those things I'd like to do if won the lotto and had the time money. You can get a virtual synth--perhaps a modular--and do your learning on it. Then, you can figure out which module types fit your needs. You can do a hybrid. Buy or build a small synth consisting of a VCO, a VCA, and a VCF. Trigger them using the MIDI output of your PC and Sonar or another sequencer. You'd probably have more control of the sequence doing it this way and then you could add the sequencer module when you're ready. A couple of companies have voice modules. These are mini-synths in one module. One of these and a sequencer(plus power and cabinet) will get you started quickly, but you give a a bit of flexibility. Two examples voice modules: http://www.doepfer.de/Dark_Energy_e.htm http://www.cwejman.net/vm-1.htm Here's one place to go for info: http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/ Here's a vendor: http://www.analoguehaven.com/ Good luck.
Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys? X2(X3 pending hardware upgrade), Emulator X2, E-mu 1212M, Virtual String Machine
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/24 08:52:59
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Check out PAiA for some possibilities: http://www.paia.com/fatman.asp They have been making synth kits for a few decades. Mr. Craig Anderton used to work with them by providing designs and tech docs for various products they make... so you may wish to ask him for a recommendation about their kits. best regards, mike
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craigb
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/24 13:20:36
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I've got a theremin kit that I've been meaning to build for years now... SOMEDAY!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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bapu
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/24 13:23:10
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craigb I've got a theremin kit that I've been meaning to build for years now... SOMEDAY! I used a VSTi Theramin on the intro to THIS SONG.
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bitflipper
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/24 23:22:43
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My first sequencer was home-built, around '73 or '74. And home-designed, too, since I had no schematics to go by and only a general idea of how one might work. It had 16 steps, because I couldn't afford parts for any more than that. It worked great, and I used it for many years, mostly to drive a customized Oberheim module. But that was an analog sequencer, so I doubt it would do you any good to describe it in detail. I mention it only as a form of encouragement. Go for it, and do not let ignorance get in your way, as it's just a temporary condition. Nowadays, I'm perfectly content to load a sample library that somebody else did all the work for. I wonder where all that youthful energy went.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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TysonC
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/24 23:59:15
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Okay, gang, I think I know what I'm gonna do: I'm going to make an Atari Punk Console (apparently some really simple noisy little synth that fits in the palm of your hand) and a 16-step sequencer... Then I'll plug them into one another and see what happens! This'll be my first little test-go to see what it's like tinkering with this sort of thing, just to get my feet wet. This should keep me busy through this week and should also give some insight into the whole process of building electronic noisemachines (which, starting from zero, is something that I need). I'm getting a little worried about the practicality of it all, though. With the APC and a sequencer, I'm not sure how I'm going to get everything to sync. I want everything to be a matched tempo with the ability to hit a button and have everything start up simultaneously. Haha, there's gonna be some reasearch before I understand what factors are at play to make that happen, but I'm sure it's doable (probably involves using MIDI, though, so there's another thing to add to my ever-growing list of things to reasearch). Just gotta soak up the knowledge... Lemme tell you what I hope to shoot for as my live setup when the plastic-smelling smoke of my first experimentation dissipates. I don't know how I'm going to go about any of this, but I'm going to define my goals early on here so I have something to shoot for as I tinker. Here's the incredibly-ambitious dream setup: Bass: I want a step sequencer driving a bass synth (the synth should have filters and LFOs for frequency sweeps and all that fancy nonsense). I want to be able to change the notes of the bass sequence accurately as it plays, so I can punch in a fill here and there on the fly (I don't think this is possible with the Baby 8-style sequencer because the pitch is controlled by a knob that isn't locked to semitones, so I might need to find a different sort of sequencer for my final kit). Drums & Arps: I want to use my Nintendo Game Boy (with sounds made from pulse waves and noise) to sequence and play back drums and arpeggiated tones(using Little Sound DJ). I'll need to figure out how to make the Game Boy start with the rest of the gear and also set it up so I can control the LSDJ's tempo with the master tempo knob that rules over this whole kit. The Game Boy should be routed through some sort of EQ so that I can keep the drums punchy. Lead: I want to build a synthesizer just for lead. Something with multiple oscillators, filters, amplifiers, and all that fun jazz. I want to be able to play this synth via a keyboard. ****y Tacos: You know, extra electronic noisemaking junk that I can collect here and there -- effects pedals, pad synths, all-beef filling-- that sort of thing. Vocals & Output: The microphone, along with all of the above gear will be routed through a mixer and out to the PA/soundcard/whatever. Well, there's my goals. I don't imagine it'll all happen over night, but I do think it's possible to get this all set up before I'm too old to lug around several suitcases of electronic music bits. With a setup like this I could create and play live arrangements, and perform electronic music more as a, well, performance, rather than just hitting the "play" button and standing there with one can up to my ear as I've seen a few people do. Whatcha think? Noble goals, or foolhardy nonsense from a total n00b? All opinions welcome. Also: That's really cool, bitflipper. Just the fact that you didn't even know where to start and that you ended up with a working 16-step sequencer fills me with all kinds of hope! I can't wait to get that Atari Punk Console together so I can make some silly blips EDIT: lawl, the forum censored the word s.p.i.c.y.
post edited by TysonC - 2012/05/25 00:01:50
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bitflipper
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/25 00:46:11
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I've decided to start substituting "curry" for all s.p.i.c.e. references. It's the same number of characters, and I like curry. So when I'm dubious about something, I won't say I'm "suspicious", I'll say I'm "suscurrious". I won't suggest that a harmonic exciter adds "spice" to a track, I'll say it adds "curry". And I won't say that habañeros are too spicy for my sensitive tummy, I'll say their too damn curry.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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TysonC
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/25 04:54:16
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Change of plans, lads! We set sail for this is way, waaay to effing hard to do from scratch (not to mention something that hit me like a pile of bricks as I was researching the Atari synth... there's nothing modular or expandable about the Atari synth, which means I'd abandon it within weeks of building it)! I think I'll get a prefab printed circuit board (or just wing it) and build something that will have lasting power in my collection of noismakings: http://tinyurl.com/6sutjsa I've heard good things about MFOS, and this is a full-fledged synthesizer (just small, and not feature-intense). I can build an adapter to connect it to a MIDI keyboard or sequencer or Cakewalk or whatever and have all the fun in the world, all while having something that won't become immediately outdated to me... Also, all of my crazy, lofty goals can still be met one way or another (can't wait to sync up a drum machine, a Game Boy, a DIY synthesizer, and a grande burrito to play live electronic music)! Now that's a spisey meatball :)
post edited by TysonC - 2012/05/25 04:58:28
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Jonbouy
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/25 06:00:08
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Now that's a spisey meatball :) That spisey workaround has curried favour from me.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Karyn
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/25 06:03:05
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Baring in mind your addmited knowledge of electronics can I point out.. This project assumes a basic level of electronics proficiency and knowledge. To build the Sound Lab Mini-Synth you must be able to read and understand schematics, relate schematics to physical components, solder, do panel wiring, case building, and very importantly be able to troubleshoot the finished project. The Sound Lab Mini-Synth project does not have step-by-step instructions to follow.
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
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TysonC
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/25 14:09:37
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Well, I've got the basic gist of reading a circuit diagram ("For Dummies" doesn't make you a pro, but it gets you that far). I can solder, too! Really, it's the "panel wiring" and "troubleshooting" that I'm dreading. My lack of experience makes these things sound like terrifying endeavors -- specifically panel-wiring, a term that I don't even recognize.
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julibee
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/30 00:44:23
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Tyson, I just ran into this on another forum, and remembered reading this thread... Might be something useful. Build your own synth kits: http://meeblip.com/
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TysonC
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/30 01:50:00
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Thanks, Jubilee. I'll check it out.
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craigb
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/30 03:18:14
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TysonC Thanks, Jubilee. I'll check it out. I nominate that as coolest misspelling of a member name yet!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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julibee
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Re:I may be a crazy person.
2012/05/30 11:27:03
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Craig, this is not the first instance. I think most people read it like that. :)
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