SBPTraxx
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Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
Hey everyone. I just picked up a babyface because I bounce from OSX to Windows and this solution works and sounds great. However, I noticed some hiss on my first mixdown I'm doing with it.
For example, the high hat track. The part of the track that is blank with no audio, when mixed down, has a very low level hiss when the volume is maxed.
This could have always been there when I mixdown but I've never noticed... so I just wanted to run it by someone.
p.s. It happens on all tracks. And everything track is MIDI via the synthrack. No audio.
What do ya think?
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/25 13:49:47
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If all tracks are virtual, the noise can't be from the Babyface.
Even if you were tracking using the Babyface's inputs/preamps, the unit is pretty quiet.
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/25 14:01:14
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The hiss must be coming from your pc or peripherals or your studio monitors. Make sure you are grounded correctly and make sure you are using balanced and shielded cables for your monitors.
CJ
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SBPTraxx
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/25 14:01:23
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Thats what I figured. But, I haven't had this problem before. I would have noticed.
I'm starting to get confused about bit depth.
As far as I know, I have been recording is 16 bit 44.1. Then i got the babyface and now my preferences have 24bit checked but it's greyed out. But it says its rendering is 32 bit... I'm using ASIO.
Is any of this related? I just got really confused.
Edit: CJ, but wouldn't I get the hiss inside the Sonar project and not just when it's mixed down it was a cable or ground problem?
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/25 14:06:09
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There are 2 settings for Sonar's bit depth,. One is for playaback and one is for recording. If the 24bit is greyed out, then your recording at 24bit. That is normal in ASIO mode.
Cj
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SBPTraxx
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/25 14:18:48
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The hiss is also there in my headphones on the mixed down wav. But in the Sonar project, it is not.
Before I got the babyface, I was setup for 16 bit. Would the change to 24 bit do anything like this? 24 bit is greyed out but the transport still says 16... I haven't changed anything so is it possible some settings for twisted when I got the new interface?
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bz2838
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/25 14:48:18
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Check your "Total Mix Settings" to make sure that you don't have any eq settings applied through your sound card. I would reset Total Mix by going to options/reset mix/total reset. I use Babyface, and have had no noise, or latency problems at all. My settings: Buffer size: 48 samples, Sample rate: 44100 Hz. Hope this helps.
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SBPTraxx
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/25 16:30:42
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I reset it and I'm still having the issue.
Now, I don't even know what I'm listening for anymore. I'm so confused. Does every exported wav have low level noise? Is this something I never noticed before? If I have a synth in the synth rack and record a part then export it... is it normal for the empty part of the track to have a low hiss when the volume is cranked?
If i zoom in I can see it's not a flat line...
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SBPTraxx
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/25 16:45:58
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In this pic, track 2 is midi date from a synth. track 1 is the synth frozen. and track 3 is the track exported and then imported. I did a direct comparison, and track 1 (the frozen synth) has no noise in between parts but track 3 has a lot of noise in between parts?! 
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bz2838
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/25 17:26:21
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I really don't think this is a Babyface issue, I've never experienced any unwanted noice since I started using Babyface.
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SBPTraxx
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/25 17:41:24
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Well, i called Sonar tech support a few times but this last time made some progress...
Drivers? Bit depth?
He had me change to WDM drivers? I then exported the track at:
16 bit (still had a loud hiss issue and the line was not straight. You could see the noise)
24 bit (no hiss! but the line is not straight?)
64 bit (no hiss and the line is perfectly straight like the frozen track)
I'm sooooooooo confused!!!
All I know is my last interface was 16 bit. I recorded in 16 bit and exported at 16 bit and never had a problem. Ever since I got the babyface... I'm having these issues with bit depths and drivers. What's worse is I can't comfortably say I understand the whole bit depth situation so I'm finding it hard to figure this out on my own.
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Zo
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/25 18:26:42
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you must have a compressor or limeter on th 2bus tha raise the noise when the sounds is soft or nul ...do you have waves plugins also ?
cut the track between the too sound zone ....also*
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Zo
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/25 18:43:17
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have you apllyed dithering ?
if yes witch one ?
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tunekicker
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/25 20:06:49
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Check your dither settings as Zo mentioned. Dither is actually adding noise, so that could be what you're hearing if you're using a basic dither.
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SBPTraxx
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/25 21:08:14
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I do use a few waves plugs... some for fx and the L2 for limiting.
The L2 does bring up the noise on the 2 bus in the project... you can actually see signal on the meter. But, I started a completely new project with no plugs and one synth... No waves plugs are on this project.
As far as dithering, Im using what Sonar is defaulted to... which is triangle, I believe.
What should I be looking for as far as dithering settings? I'm not sure what to start doing about bit depth.
Should it be set at 24 bit 48k? If i set it as that NOW, what will happen to older projects that used 16 bit 44.1?
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tunekicker
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/25 21:58:23
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Older projects will still open in 16 bit 44.1. For new projects I would always do 24-bit record. If you're not trying to kill hard drive space (or CPU when running lots of plugins), 44.1 should be fine for CD and 48 for audio that's being prepped for video.
Try using one of the POW-R settings for the dithering in Sonar. These are noise shaped and should be less noticeable than the Triangular setting.
Best of luck!
Peace,
Tunes
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SBPTraxx
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/28 12:25:48
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so adjust settings to 24bit and 44.1? got it. And all will be well with older projects that were recorded in 16 bit? Sounds good. I'll do that.
I tried the POW-R settings... I don't remember exactly, one made it worse, one was the same, one was a bit better.. nothing fully worked.
The only thing I've noticed is if I export is as a 16 bit wav, no matter how i dither, it has a crazy amount of hiss. But if I export a 24 bit wav and up, it has no hiss at all.
But why? I've always exported as 16 bit wavs in the past with no problems.
Can I export 16 projects as 24 bit wavs? Im not sure what is optimal or acceptable right now with this issue.
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SBPTraxx
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/29 09:08:56
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John
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/29 10:04:56
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Lets see here. I would advise that you need to set your project bit depth to 24 bits. and the render bit depth to 24 bit too.
When we record in 16 bits (the CD standard) we need to have the levels as high as possible with out clipping to have the lowest noise level. With 24 bits the noise level is so low that even a low volume recording will not have any noise.
Hiss is usually due to the noise within an electronic system. It is created by the heat of any electric circuit and can not be eliminated. However, it can be so low that it is not heard. With 24 bits and better this is easy to accomplish. With 16 bits its much harder.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/29 10:19:52
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bump Sure sounds like dither to me... I'd switch to one of the Pow-r algorithms. I prefer algorithm 1... but let your ears decide.
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SBPTraxx
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/29 13:51:49
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I understand! I will make those changes so my future projects will be 24bit all around. But, if this project was set at 16bit and I render to 24bit, what will happen exactly? It seems rendering to 24 bit eliminates the hiss that rendering in 16 bit creates! John
Lets see here. I would advise that you need to set your project bit depth to 24 bits. and the render bit depth to 24 bit too.
When we record in 16 bits (the CD standard) we need to have the levels as high as possible with out clipping to have the lowest noise level. With 24 bits the noise level is so low that even a low volume recording will not have any noise.
Hiss is usually due to the noise within an electronic system. It is created by the heat of any electric circuit and can not be eliminated. However, it can be so low that it is not heard. With 24 bits and better this is easy to accomplish. With 16 bits its much harder.
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pwal
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/29 14:22:29
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John
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/29 14:31:34
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SBPTraxx
I understand! I will make those changes so my future projects will be 24bit all around. But, if this project was set at 16bit and I render to 24bit, what will happen exactly? It seems rendering to 24 bit eliminates the hiss that rendering in 16 bit creates!
John
Lets see here. I would advise that you need to set your project bit depth to 24 bits. and the render bit depth to 24 bit too.
When we record in 16 bits (the CD standard) we need to have the levels as high as possible with out clipping to have the lowest noise level. With 24 bits the noise level is so low that even a low volume recording will not have any noise.
Hiss is usually due to the noise within an electronic system. It is created by the heat of any electric circuit and can not be eliminated. However, it can be so low that it is not heard. With 24 bits and better this is easy to accomplish. With 16 bits its much harder.
If the hiss is already there its going to be there no matter what you do except use a noise reduction plugin to lower it or eliminate it. If it can't be recorded again I would go the noise reduction route. What I mean by this is its being there is that its part of the file that you recorded. Its too late to use a higher bit depth. Though, I would still use 24 bits and especially if doing any processing. Gating can be used on the parts where there is no musical content. This can help give the illusion of quiet when it really isn't Sound Forge has useful noise reduction so does Izotope. You'd be surprised how good the results can be with good noise reduction. I hope this is helpful.
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SBPTraxx
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/30 12:20:53
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Ok, I've read everything everyone said 50 times. I seemed to have solved the problem, I just don't know if it would cause another problem.
I'm sending this track out to be mixed. So it's going to be loaded into another computer (obviously). The computer settings are unknown to me.
It is all softsynths. No audio. The settings when I tracked it were 16bit 44.1.
I changed my project and render bit rate to 24bit and left 44.1, as John recommended. The song opens and plays beautifully, no hiss. When I mixed down a track to test, there was NO hiss. The export settings were 24bit, triangular dither. When the settings are 16bit, any dither, there IS hiss.
I loaded the test track into a separate project and all seemed fine. Is there a reason i can't export all tracks as 24bit so i don't get hiss, even though this was a 16bit project? I need to understand this. I'm way behind my deadline now and every minute I have another guy over my shoulder.
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John
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/30 12:39:13
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Set the project to 24 bits. You should be good to go.
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SBPTraxx
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Re:Hiss issue (New RME Babyface)
2012/05/30 12:44:19
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Really? Thank God! I'm going to export this track! I'm still confused how this just randomly started happening... but, if I can move on, i'll take it!
Thanks John!
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