Clicking/Popping/Latency Issue. Help Appreciated

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MonsieurMr
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2012/06/18 14:57:45 (permalink)

Clicking/Popping/Latency Issue. Help Appreciated

Disclaimer:  This is my first ever post, to any forum, ever.  So, let me appologize ahead of time if I violate some unwritten rule of some kind.
 
Now, the problem.  I've been experiencing an issue with clicking and popping when playing soft synths and playing back audio.  I've tried a few different suggestions that I've seen either here or in the knowledge base, but to no avail.  Most of the suggestions I have seen recommend that I set the ASIO buffer latency to 10 ms and that it should be fine on most systems.  However, I have to set my latency all the way to 50 ms before the clicking stops.  This renders my MIDI controller useless. 
 
For what it's worth, I have tried playing the exact same synth (reaktor/skanner) in standalone mode, using the same settings I use in Sonar, and there is no issue.  Also, I'm running low on HD space on one of my drives.  Can this have an effect?
 
System: 
 
Processor:  amd phenom II x4 940 quad-core
RAM:           8 GB
OS:             Windows Vista Ultimate (64 bit) SP2
AI:              emu 1616m w/ 1010 PCIe card
DAW:          Sonar X1d Producer
 
That's the main specs.  If any other info would be helpful let me know.  Thanks all in advance for the help.
 
 
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    Beepster
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    Re:Clicking/Popping/Latency Issue. Help Appreciated 2012/06/18 15:10:20 (permalink)
    Welcome to the forum. Your system specs look okay. PCI can cause problems but I think PCIe stuff is okay. The hardrive being full may cause issues but I'm not sure. Maybe it doesn't have enough space for virtual memory tasks (if that even applies in modern systems) but I'd try to clean up that drive or get a secondary storage drive. Also try this optimization guide from Sweetwater (Warning: PDF file) http://www.sweetwater.com...Optimization_Guide.pdf I did all of that and it made my system cooperate a lot better with my old interface but DON'T do the "Change Processor Scheduling" part as Sonar apparently needs those settings for some reason. Good luck.
    #2
    Beepster
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    Re:Clicking/Popping/Latency Issue. Help Appreciated 2012/06/18 15:12:35 (permalink)
    Oh and make sure you are using all 8 gigs of RAM. Poor installation can limit you to one stick.
    #3
    konradh
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    Re:Clicking/Popping/Latency Issue. Help Appreciated 2012/06/18 15:24:01 (permalink)
    I recommend doing Ctrl+Alt+Del to open Task Manager.  Go to the Performance Tab.  Click Task Manager so its window is on top of Sonar.  Watch your memory and CPU usage as the project plays.

    In my case, only 4.5 GBs of my 12 GB memory is  ever needed even though I have a ton of soft synths going.  For me memory is not the issue.

    The CPU hits 100% or close to it often if I have too many soft synths OR if I am running Hollywood Strings.

    Solutions:
    • Freeze your soft snyths
    • Avoid using the reverb in the soft synth itself if possible.  It is more efficient to set up a reverb bus with a separate reverb like Lexicon.

    When I freeze Hollywood, my CPU goes from 100% to 15%.  On projects with lots of soft synths, usually freezing one or two, or using a reverb outside the soft synth resolves the issue.

    You may not have Hollywood, of course, but the point is that some virtual instruments are huge processor hogs.

    I tried the buffer thing but there are pros and cons to moving it either direction and I did not find that to be helpful.

    I have an i7 running in 64-bit with 12 GBs memory.  Running Sonar X1 in 64-bit.
     
    A little off topic, but for those considering Vienna Symphonic versus Hollywood, Vienna uses only a fraction of the computing power that Hollywood demands.  It loads way faster and is easier to use.  I have both and love both and there are advantages to both; but from a resource perspective, VSL is a much leaner design.
    #4
    MonsieurMr
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    Re:Clicking/Popping/Latency Issue. Help Appreciated 2012/06/18 17:00:29 (permalink)
    Hey thanks for the quick replies beepster and konrad. 
     
    Beepster,
     
    I tried the sweetwater optimization and although I'm sure it was a good thing to do, it did not solve the problem.  How woudl I check to see if I am using all 8 gigs of ram?  Sorry, I'm not the best with computers, but I can follow directions. I will also try to clean up that drive a bit and get back to you.
     
    Konrad,
     
    I looked at the task manager while experiencing the popping issue and the RAM usage is fine (around 2GB out of 8GB) and the CPU usage only goes to about 7%.  I don't think it is just an issue with CPU hogging plugs.  I have the same issue when using any softsynth and even playing back dry audio, no fx or anything.  The only thing that stops the clicking is setting the latency to 50+ ms.
     
    Guys, here is a link to my flickr photostream showing screenshots of my driver, playback and recording, and sync and caching settings: http://www.flickr.com/photos/80670408@N07/
     
    If you could take a look at that and see if anything is amiss I would appreciate it.  Thanks again.
    #5
    Beepster
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    Re:Clicking/Popping/Latency Issue. Help Appreciated 2012/06/18 17:22:24 (permalink)
    I'm not sure how you would go about it because my motherboard has a MemOk feature I can use but since I built the system I made sure I put the RAM into the correct slots right off the bat. Someone else smarter than I should be able to explain further. Another thing you should look at is making sure you have the latest drivers for EVERYTHING. Like all of your computer parts but especially your interface and MIDI devices. That can cause quite a few problems. Just a note, I'm a beginner myself but I've been plowing through all these pitfalls over the past month and finally got everything working properly. It is however quite possible the PCIe card IS causing a problem. I had to get a USB 2.0 interface because my Echo PCI device was not cooperating with my motherboard. I did manage to get it working after optimizing the system and adjusting my buffer but I wanted something newer anyway. PCIe is more modern though so it works far better on new motherboards. There are quite a few threads on here about the PCI issue.
    #6
    CJaysMusic
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    Re:Clicking/Popping/Latency Issue. Help Appreciated 2012/06/18 19:10:34 (permalink)
    Its not your ram in my opinion. Your symptoms spell out driver issues.

    Make sure your Emu has good "working" 64bit Vista drviers and make sure you have them installed on your pc. Then try WDm and ASIO driver modes and chose the one that best works for you.

    You also have MIDi buffers that may need adjusting, but im pretty sure its your sound card drivers. Also get a new hard drive for good measure as your is filled up

    Cj

    www.audio-mastering-mixing.com - A Professional Worldwide Audio Mixing & Mastering Studio, Providing Online And Attended Sessions. We also do TV commercials, Radio spots & spoken word books
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    #7
    Beepster
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    Re:Clicking/Popping/Latency Issue. Help Appreciated 2012/06/18 19:20:40 (permalink)
    Listen to CJay... he's smart.
    #8
    MonsieurMr
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    Re:Clicking/Popping/Latency Issue. Help Appreciated 2012/06/20 15:23:43 (permalink)
    Thanks for the reply CJ.  I just downloaded new drivers but I'm still having issues.  I tried WDM and the clicking is gone on playback but it behaves strangely when recoding.  I don't know how to describe it... It just doesn't work right. It's all distorted. I mean, I could do all my softsynth stuff in WDM and switch to ASIO for recording while I try to sort this out.  But I think this is something I'm just going to have to mess with for a while.  I appreciate all the suggestions though.
    #9
    karma1959
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    Re:Clicking/Popping/Latency Issue. Help Appreciated 2012/06/20 16:56:18 (permalink)
    Hi,
    I agree your issue is not likely hardware related and could be driver related.  You may want to try DPC Latency Checker (it's free):  http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml  , this will let you know which of your drivers are introducing latency.  

    If this doesn't outline any issues, check your project - do you have any latency-intensive plugins in your project?  You can easily disable all plugins for the project and see if the issue continues to rule this out.  

    One other point regarding your hard drive - playing / recording audio is highly I/O intensive.  I'm not suggesting your hard drive filling up is causing your issue, however it's likely not going to help either.  I assume your drive is 7500rpm or faster (correct?) and be sure it's defragmented.  Also, if you're using lots of audio samples while playing / recording in Sonar, you should consider splitting those out to a separate hard drive, as that can cause bottlenecks as well.  You can check to see  disk I/O activity in task manager as well to get a feel for this.

    Given you said you've optimized the PC per sweetwater's instructions, I'll assume you've already disabled WLAN, virus scanning, firewalls, etc. however let me know if that's not accurate.

    Hope this helps.
    Russ

     


    Sonar Platinum x64 on Win10 64, Dell T7400 w/ 8 Xeon cores, 8 Gbyte RAM, 3 hard drives, RME Fireface UFX, UAD-1, Mackie Control, Adam A7X
    #10
    MonsieurMr
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    Re:Clicking/Popping/Latency Issue. Help Appreciated 2012/06/23 13:40:57 (permalink)
    Karma, that DPC checker looks like it could be a usefull little tool there.  I'll download that when I get off work tonight and try it out.  But, yeah, I don't think it's just using cpu-intensive plugs because i get the clicking with just one synth in a project.  I've tried freezing everything but audio tacks before too without improvement.  I've just been working around it, turning the buffer way up for playback and back down to record MIDI.  But it just sucks the creative juices out of me to have to fiddle with that constantly and not the music.
    #11
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