HELP!!! Need some mix-masters advice on muddy mix translations (kind of long post)

Hi All,
    Haven't been here in a while.  Just working on getting my studio back up after a few life setbacks.
    First, my gear: Motu 3-2408mk3, 1-24IO, 4-UAD1, an ART outboard stereo tube compressor, Sonar X1 w/64-bit Engine Enabled on XP 32-bit.  My two go-to EQ's for tracks and busses are either the SonitusFX EQ or the Neve 1073 (UAD1).  My plugin bundles that I use most frequently are UAD-1, SonitusFX and DSP-FX.  I know the SonitusFX & DSP-Fx are old, but they still sound great.  My monitoring system consists of 2 KRK V-Series II 10" with a big 15" sub.  I'm using a DBX DriveRack/PA between the monitors and the Motu gear.

     My mixing desk is at a 45 degree angle at the corner of the room with my 12 o'clock being the rooms corner.  The sub is on the right wall pointing inwards towards the corner/left wall.  Speakers on the desk are aligned with my mix position to form an almost perfect equilateral triangle with the horns about an inch above ear height.  I don't have any bass traps in that corner but I do have them in 2 other corners of the room and two pieces of auralex on the left and right walls at speaker height.

    Before starting any session, I'll always pink the room with the RTA microphone where my ears (though technically my nose) would be while mixing.  As far as I know, I've created the best flat response achievable in the space I'm using.

     My signal path is: Sonar X1 Master Bus->Motu->ART Compressor->Motu->Sonar X1 Stereo Track.  I then take the stereo track into Sound Forge 9 and mute/fade/trim the edges, save as w64 file for posterity and then save as 44khz/16bit 192kbps MP3.

     Throughout all this mess, the mix sounds fantastic.  Plenty of bottom, nice mids and clear crisp highs.

     The problem is taking that final MP3 and playing it anywhere else presents a mix that has almost nonexistent high end.   My current work-around is to add a 6db high shelf at 2k.  The problem with that is the mix sounds awful on the studio monitors (in some spots excruciating).

    I'm kind of at a loss as to where to go next.   I've tried putting a 15-band stereo eq between the motu and driverack and putting the equivalent of a 6db drop on the highs starting at 2k but this just seems like the wrong solution.   It almost seems that even though the drive rack is claiming to have flattened the mix EQ, the highs are a bit over-hyped.  Perhaps I'm not putting the RTA mic in the correct spot but I think if I put it any further away from the speakers that the highs will be boosted even higher.

     I'd love any suggestions any of you folks could provide.


Best,
Guitardood

Linear Phase


Your tracks are bass heavy.  Would be my guess...  cause you are using a 15" sub, and 10 inch monitors.  Either your tracks are bass heavy.  Or..  you produce gangsta rap.. take your pic

Thanks for the response.

Not gangsta.......C'mon man my handle is Guitardood.  If you look up white in the dictionary, my picture is there (as well as why white people should not shave their heads )

Seriously, the mix is 6 piece rock - 2 guitars - Bass - Drums - B3/Some synths.  The driverack device Auto-EQ's (supposedly) the speakers for a complete flat response.


Using Voxengo's SPAN (spectrum analyzer), the mix looks textbook.  I did notice that the converted MP3 mix shows a drop from about 4k-16k but not enough to explain the extreme mud.



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Guitardood

Just buy ARC from ik multimedia (199$) and flatten you room freq response , then your mixes will translate anywhere ....

To not lose too much infos on MP3 , check the Inersamples , tha might be the cause (even if your regular meter don't go red , some samples might pass)

the KRK V series II are sized in 4, 6 & 8" (no 10").. and with either the 6 or 8" versions (i have VXT8 and V6/II) i would very, very strongly recommend mixing without the sub...you really do not need that 10Hz extension to make 98% of the mix....without the sub i suspect your mixes will immediately come alive.

If mixes still sound dull over mp3/elsewhere...check the HF settings on the V8 (i assume they are 8's) they have three settings..and you may have them set to +1.5dB (or whatever it is..lol)

why mix w no sub?.. It is very very difficult to effectively integrate a sub into an audiophile/monitor environment and really cannot be done well without help.... a sub in a corner can add 3-6dB and ruin the phase response at xover.. you will have nulls and sound humps all over the room...

EDIT: I Note that if you have used the RTA of your driverack system then this may flatten eq..but will do nothing for phase.. so you are likely sitting in a null and boosting bass & low mid to compensate...

Thanks everybody for your great advice and tips.

I believe it is a room/positioning issue as Mystic38 & js516 suggest.  When I walk around the room or into the next room the bass and kick are pounding but from my mix chair it sounds even, sometimes almost lacking in low-end.  BTW, Mystic38 was also right about the speakers, they're 8" woofers (V-Series II) on the monitors.

I'm using EQ inside of Sonar to boost and cut freqs for to decluttering/mix though I'll admit that sometimes that extra sound or instrument has got to go.

The ARC program from ikMedia sounds cool but I've already a function similar to that with the DBX DriveRack, though it might be helpful to have this capability in sonar so that the 'pink' goes through the entire signal path and not just the DriveRack.

It really sounds like I'm in a bass null spot.  I'm going to try disconnecting the sub.  If that still provides no joy I'll probably rearrange from the corner to elongated as David suggested.


You can check out my latest test mix (I left it as WAV so as to take the MP3 conversion out of the equation for now) at:http://www.musicpreview.com/mp3/ChuckFletcher_EndlessFlight_MixTest.wav

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Guitardood

Sorry..  I had to go back in time a little to match your style..   but listen to the bass

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=montrose+bad+motor+scooter&mid=F96F565B56FF983B833BF96F565B56FF983B833B&view=detail&FORM=VIRE1

Besides tuning your room, so its as flat as possible, i would introduce Compliemtary EQ Techniques to your mixes. You have too much going on in the low end and its competing over eachother. It shouldnt be like that.

Cj