Helpful ReplySome Soft syths work with MIDI others don't

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calvykins
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2012/07/11 18:12:18 (permalink)

Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't

Hi everyone. I'm having a problem with my X1 producer linked to Sonar VS-100.
I can play a .mid file through Cakewalk TTS and Dreamstation, Z3ta+ and other softsynths but I cannot play the same file with the same settings (or any other settings) with the Cakewalk SI softsynths or Dimension pro or True Piano.
I can see activity on the meters but no output. It seems to be a problem with the master output on just some of the soft synths.
I have searched everywhere for a solution but no joy. Any ideas would be much appreciated I have spent hours on this.
 
Quad core PC Windows 7 using ASIO driver with VS-100
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    Fog
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/11 18:54:22 (permalink)
    sounds like you haven't set up your midi..

    you are getting an indication of midi in on the task bar (next to the clock , right bottom of screen) right?


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    calvykins
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 01:51:08 (permalink)
    Fog


    sounds like you haven't set up your midi..

    you are getting an indication of midi in on the task bar (next to the clock , right bottom of screen) right?

    Hi Fog. Thanks for your prompt reply....
    No, the midi indication (little keyboard with 2 lights) does not light up.
    Just to explain the problem more.... I have downloaded a .mid backing track from the internet and I wish to assign soft synths to the various tracks to achieve a much better sound.
    I have copied the track and pasted it into a new blank project and inserted soft synths. The tracks will only work with some of the soft synths... with no midi indication on the task bar but midi showing within the project.
    However, if I cut and paste a track which I have created myself (not downloaded from the internet) into a different project  all the soft synths work just fine BUT still no MIDI activity showing on the taskbar indicator.
    I am using the VS-100 as my midi processor.
    I have noticed on another project that I get an error message saying that "silent buses detected" referring to the master output... I'm not sure if this is relevant to my problem as I don't have the same message with this one.
    Is it possible that the downloaded .mid file is sending instructions to my setup causing problems? I have tried using a section of the downloaded MIDI track which seems to have just notes present, but I still have the same problem.
    I appreciate your help...cheers
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    calvykins
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 02:34:45 (permalink)
    I forgot to mention that I am using the ASIO driver and the VS-100 1-2 output of the VS-100, not the computer soundcard line out.
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 03:53:39 (permalink)
    Specifically with regards to Dimension Pro, have you selected a patch for it to use?

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    calvykins
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 04:11:32 (permalink)
    Hi... Yes I have selected a patch with Dimension Pro. I can play the Dimension pro patches with my midi keyboard and with midi tracks in Sonar X1 that I have created, but not with the downloaded .mid file as explained above.  Thanks
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    Kev999
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 04:27:01 (permalink)
    calvykins
    Fog

    you are getting an indication of midi in on the task bar (next to the clock , right bottom of screen) right?
    ...The tracks will only work with some of the soft synths... with no midi indication on the task bar but midi showing within the project.
    However, if I cut and paste a track which I have created myself (not downloaded from the internet) into a different project  all the soft synths work just fine BUT still no MIDI activity showing on the taskbar indicator...
    That's normal.  The Taskbar only shows midi input activity (e.g. from a midi keyboard), not midi activity within Sonar.

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    calvykins
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 04:27:15 (permalink)
    I can't understand why I can play all the soft synths using a MIDI track I have created and only some of the soft synths using an internet downloaded .mid file track. The track I have created is very simple no sys ex messages used. ie no velocity, volume changes etc.
    I can only assume that there must be some code imbedded in the downloaded file which is causing some soft synths not to function.
    Could it be to do with the controller/surfaces set up?
    Is there a way to extract only the notes from a MIDI track and strip out other messages?
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    Kev999
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 04:37:23 (permalink)
    calvykins

    Is it possible that the downloaded .mid file is sending instructions to my setup causing problems?
    Try viewing the midi clip in Event List View (accessed via either the View menu or View toolbar).


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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 04:57:57 (permalink)
    Try inserting DimPro normally, with it's own Midi track, then copy the note data from your downloaded Midi track to the DP one.

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    calvykins
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 06:18:30 (permalink)
    Kev999


    calvykins

    Is it possible that the downloaded .mid file is sending instructions to my setup causing problems?
    Try viewing the midi clip in Event List View (accessed via either the View menu or View toolbar).


    There are events at the beginning of the downloaded track but when I copy a portion of the track which only has note events I still have the same problem. It will not play on Dimension Pro, True Piano and some other soft synths. It will play on Cakewalk TTS and some other synths however.
    #11
    calvykins
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 06:20:01 (permalink)
    Bristol_Jonesey


    Try inserting DimPro normally, with it's own Midi track, then copy the note data from your downloaded Midi track to the DP one.


    I've tried that without sucess. But if I insert TTS soft synth it will play  OK
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    synkrotron
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 07:41:14 (permalink)
    Any chance of uploading one of your problematic .mid files so that I can have a look at it please?

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    Mystic38
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 07:41:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
    TTS is likely working because it is GM compliant...

    i have no idea why cut/paste note event data does not work in a fresh DP track ..

    but, your midi file likely contains a GM reset, PC messages and any and all other stuff inserted by the author...
    i would suggest to load the .mid file into a new project. 
    Without assigning any instruments or pressing play,  investigate the event list for each and every track and delete all control/setup msgs ..there is nothing here that you cannot recreate/setup in sonar.

    In DP or other synths, check in the option box for "receive PC/control messages" or similar and disable reception of everything bar note/velocity data if you are able to do so..

    thats all i got... if you still get stuck post the .mid file link and i or someone can tinker...

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    konradh
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 07:59:44 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
    Just to eliminate all possibilities:

    • When you look in the event list, what MIDI channel is assigned?  Do files with some MIDI channels work while others don't?
    • Is your soft synth set to the right channel?  Best to set the MIDI input in the track to None/Omni until you get this sorted out.  That way it will respond to the notes whatever MIDI channels they are on.
    • You said you made sure the track only has note events.  That's good.  You may try putting a Controller 121 with a value of 0 in the first of the track.  This resets all Controllers to make sure nothing weird is going on.
    • One last and unlikely possibility: are the notes out of range for the sound?  This is not likely to be an issue with a synth (like Dimension Pro) but could easily happen with virtual instruments that only play a specific range (bass, violin, etc.).
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    calvykins
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 08:01:19 (permalink)
    synkrotron 
     
    I've prepared the .mid file.. How do I upload it please?
     


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    calvykins
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 11:16:39 (permalink)
    Hi
     
    In reply to a request for an upload of the problem .mid file, I have posted it on my website as "problem.mid" at the following address http://calvinscornucopia.webnode.com/  You should be able to download it from there.
     
    Any comments would be gratefully received
     
    Thanks one and all for being so helpful 
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    adriang7749
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 12:10:16 (permalink)
    I have similar problem.  on an internet sourced MIDI file, Dimension Pro and Rapture won't play a MIDI bass line but TTS and SI Bass Guitar will?  I'll be watching your thres for a solution!
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    Mystic38
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 12:41:00 (permalink)
    Hi Again,

    I opened your problem.mid and reviewd the pre-song event list and normally (if this was me) i would delete all these controller events... but i left it.

    I inserted a soft synth dimension pro with the following properties... "midi source" and "first synth audio output" (make sure with a soft synth you have two tracks open... the midi source, and the audio out)

    I copies a few random bars of notes from the problem.mid track and inserted them into the dim pro midi source track..

    It played fine....

    I then deleted all the controller info on the problem.mid file and routed the midi out of that track to the dim pro midi track.. it played fine..

    only thing i can think is that perhaps you had no audio out track for the soft synth??

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    synkrotron
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 13:18:17 (permalink)
    Hi Calvin, I have downloaded your MIDI file and I will have a look at it in a minute or two. I doubt if I will be able to add to what has been said so far, but I shall have a look anyway and report back here as soon as...

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    calvykins
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 13:51:58 (permalink)
    Mystic38


    Hi Again,

    I opened your problem.mid and reviewd the pre-song event list and normally (if this was me) i would delete all these controller events... but i left it.

    I inserted a soft synth dimension pro with the following properties... "midi source" and "first synth audio output" (make sure with a soft synth you have two tracks open... the midi source, and the audio out)

    I copies a few random bars of notes from the problem.mid track and inserted them into the dim pro midi source track..

    It played fine....

    I then deleted all the controller info on the problem.mid file and routed the midi out of that track to the dim pro midi track.. it played fine..

    only thing i can think is that perhaps you had no audio out track for the soft synth??

    Thanks....Unfortunately it doesn't work on my setup.
    I'm now certain it's not the MIDI file or Sonar X1 but the setup of my Roland VS100
    I am using the Cakewalk (Roland) VS-100 with VS-100 Output 1-2. With TTS there is a connection between TTS and the master output which is routed to VS100 1-2. It works just fine. When Dimension Pro is used I get activity at the DP but no activity at the master. The "connection" between DP and Master isn't being made even with exactly the same settings as the TTS. I have tried many permutations of I/O without success!!
    Although I still don't understand why my own MIDI file will play on DP but not the downloaded one
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    synkrotron
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 14:09:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
    Okay, here is what I did and what I found:-

    I imported the MIDI file into an existing project.
    I added an instance of TTS.
    I copied the MIDI file to the TTS track.
    On starting the X1 transport, the MIDI file played the default instrument and I heard sound.

    So far, so good.

    I then added an instance of TruePianos, as that was mentioned as one of the "problem" soft synths.
    I copied the imported MIDI track to the MIDI track of TruePianos.
    I started the song.
    No sound came from the TruePianos soft synth.
    I looked at the MIDI data in Event List. There are sixteen MIDI messages before any note events. I could not see any of the usual events (7 or 11) that would affect the volume of a MIDI device.

    There was, however, a Registered Parameter Number 0, which was set to 256. Now, I am a bit rusty, no, a lot rusty about RPNs, and I couldn't even find anything on google that would explain the actions of that RPN, but it is this that sets the volume level of TruePianos to zero.

    So, I deleted that line of data in Event List.
    With the soft synth properties window open for TruePianos, I made sure that the volume slider was set to something greater than zero (if the controller messages had already been sent, then it is essential that you reset this manually).
    I then played the song and TruePianos responded by playing the MIDI notes.


    To be honest, I would delete all of the non note MIDI events in any imported MIDI file, unless you know for sure that you require the settings contained therein. I would suggest that you would normally want to create and select your own settings to suit yourself anyway, and it is only the notes that you are after.


    I hope this helps :^)

    andy

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    calvykins
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 15:23:51 (permalink)
    synkrotron


    Okay, here is what I did and what I found:-

    I imported the MIDI file into an existing project.
    I added an instance of TTS.
    I copied the MIDI file to the TTS track.
    On starting the X1 transport, the MIDI file played the default instrument and I heard sound.

    So far, so good.

    I then added an instance of TruePianos, as that was mentioned as one of the "problem" soft synths.
    I copied the imported MIDI track to the MIDI track of TruePianos.
    I started the song.
    No sound came from the TruePianos soft synth.
    I looked at the MIDI data in Event List. There are sixteen MIDI messages before any note events. I could not see any of the usual events (7 or 11) that would affect the volume of a MIDI device.

    There was, however, a Registered Parameter Number 0, which was set to 256. Now, I am a bit rusty, no, a lot rusty about RPNs, and I couldn't even find anything on google that would explain the actions of that RPN, but it is this that sets the volume level of TruePianos to zero.

    So, I deleted that line of data in Event List.
    With the soft synth properties window open for TruePianos, I made sure that the volume slider was set to something greater than zero (if the controller messages had already been sent, then it is essential that you reset this manually).
    I then played the song and TruePianos responded by playing the MIDI notes.


    To be honest, I would delete all of the non note MIDI events in any imported MIDI file, unless you know for sure that you require the settings contained therein. I would suggest that you would normally want to create and select your own settings to suit yourself anyway, and it is only the notes that you are after.


    I hope this helps :^)

    andy
     
    Andy You are a Star!!!  Deleting the 0 parameter has done the trick. Thanks very much it has taken me 2 days to find a solution and I hate to be defeated. Now I can get on with my project.... Cheers


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    synkrotron
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/12 15:27:03 (permalink)
    The pleasure was all mine :^) Have fun...

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    adriang7749
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/13 15:46:29 (permalink)
    Worked for me too!

    Well done and many thanks Andy

    best Adrian
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    synkrotron
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/13 15:54:17 (permalink)
    adriang7749


    Worked for me too!

    Thanks for the feedback Adrian, it's nice to know when I actually manage to help someone here, and therefore give something back for all the help I've had the past three weeks (or more).


    cheers :^)




    Erm... I wonder if someone could help me, while I'm here... How on earth do you mark someone's post as being helpful, like in some of the posts above? Is it a forum option I have missed or something?


    TIA

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/13 17:02:20 (permalink)
    I think the only person who can mark a post as "helpful" is the thread starter.

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    synkrotron
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    Re:Some Soft syths work with MIDI others don't 2012/07/13 17:21:56 (permalink)
    Ah, thanks Jonesey... I'll have a look at a couple I started in one of the other forums.

    edit - yep... see that now, thanks again...

    http://www.synkrotron.co.uk/
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