SOLVED*** Perplexing question regarding audible vs. inaudible clipping?

When I changed the audio settings from 48khz to 44.1khz the problem went away.  Now there is the headroom I am accustomed to.

What's weird is that in my profire 2626 settings, the sample rate is set to 48khz.

In any event, I'm happy :)
My new setup is kicking ass.




I am in the process of switching to a new computer.  For many years I have noticed how forgiving sonar is when transients "clip"; there is no audible distortion for an occasional peak at or even above 0.0.

When using my new machine yesterday, I very quickly found out that a peak at 0.0 caused VERY AUDIBLE distortion ) like I haven't heard in YEARS of using sonar).

My level settings, hardware, mic, outboard gear, these things were all set in the same way I have countless time before.  Within Sonar, some (audio) settings may not be identical- I'm not entirely sure.

I was using 32bit Sonar (I have only just started to use 64bit and only on big projects that need full RAM usage).  This particular project was started on my old machine and we were re-cutting vocals on the new computer.

THE OLD VOCALS RECORDED ON THE OLD MACHINE HAD THE SAME 0.0 CLIPPING WITHOUT ANY AUDIBLE DISTORTION!!!!

How?  What?  The new and old vocals were side by side looking completely identical but the new ones had loud digital distortion at or above 0.0.
I tried disabling all plugins and it still happened.

Anyone know what is going on here?
Seriously- I have wondered for years how sonar lets you get away with slight transient clipping with no consequences.  

Can you see squared off tops on the wav graphic?

What Jonesey is alluding to is the difference between floating-point versus integer data. 

Within SONAR, data is represented as floating-point, which means that there is practically no upper limit for levels. 0db is just a reference, and exceeding it does not cause distortion.

Your audio interface, however, can only handle integer data. For it, 0db isn't just some arbitrary reference, but rather an absolute limit that literally cannot be exceeded. Attempting to do so will result in clipping and very nasty-sounding distortion. (You can actually tolerate a few sequential clipped samples before it becomes audible, but since it's a fine line between what you can and cannot hear, it's best to simply avoid overs altogether.)

This is why exceeding 0db sometimes results in distortion and sometimes it doesn't. Right up until you send the signal to the main outs, it's safe to exceed 0db. But if you're clipping at that point, you risk audible distortion. 

If you're just a db or two over the limit, you can simply lower the level going into your master bus using the trim/gain slider or the input fader on your bus compressor/limiter. However, it's a much better practice to keep your track levels low enough that when the mix hits the master bus you've got at least 6db headroom, and preferably 12db. This is true whether you're doing your own mastering or not.

None of this applies if the track was distorted as it was recorded, though. If it was your audio interface or mic preamp that was distorting on the way in, then you're screwed. I think that's why g_randybrown asked if the waveform looks clipped, which would indicate distortion that happened during the initial recording.

is it an old 32 bit project in x64 sonar, or are you loading it in 32? could it be a driver difference? (between win32 & win64)

pwal


is it an old 32 bit project in x64 sonar, or are you loading it in 32? could it be a driver difference? (between win32 & win64)

Good call...but what about the squared off tops?

g_randybrown

pwal


is it an old 32 bit project in x64 sonar, or are you loading it in 32? could it be a driver difference? (between win32 & win64)

Good call...but what about the squared off tops?

the squared-off tops could be played back differently in different environments(drivers)? weird for sure... but when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro maybe you can check the squared-off wavs on another machine?

The waveform could have a squared-off appearance and still sound OK. It depends on how the clipping occurred. 

If it was the result of overdriving a mic preamp, it might sound fine because the artifacts generated by analog clipping are harmonically related and therefore less audible and less annoying. Artifacts generated by digital clipping, OTOH, are not correlated to the original signal, making the distortion more audible and more objectionable, and may also cause aliasing, which is even more obvious and objectionable.

SOLVED!
When I changed the audio settings from 48khz to 44.1khz the problem went away.  Now there is the headroom I am accustomed to.  What's weird is that in my profire 2626 settings, the sample rate is set to 48khz.  In any event, I'm happy :)  My new setup is kicking ass.