Direct Monitoring

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4partmusic
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2012/07/17 11:12:58 (permalink)

Direct Monitoring

I think I am totally missing something in regard to setting up to record a live vocal with previously recorded track.  Here is my set up.
 
  • I am running Windows 7 32 bit on a quad core computer
  • Running Sonar X1 expanded with latest builds
  • Recording with an AT2020 through a Tascam 1800 with WDM driver
  • Recording at 96,000 with around 2.3 Milliseconds latency.  (It is lower at 96 K versus 44.1.  That doesn't make sense to me.)
 
Issue, no matter what I try I am getting a slight delay/echo in the headphones when trying to record the vocal.  I cannot hear my vocal unless I have the Direct Monitoring button activated.  I thought I could direct monitor from the Tascam but could not get that to work.  The delay is significant enough that I have trouble singing with the recorded tracks. 
 
Any ideas on what I am doing wrong or is this just something I have to live with, with a DAW recorder?
 
Thanks,
 
Terry
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Direct Monitoring 2012/07/17 11:18:04 (permalink)
    Try bypassing ALL of your Fx (dedicated button in the Control Bar)

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    AT
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    Re:Direct Monitoring 2012/07/17 11:50:04 (permalink)
    delay of what?  the vocal?

    If that is the case the first thing to do is Bristol above suggestions.

    The next thing is to realize that the stated latency is about 1/2 of the real latency - your vocal needs to go into SONAR, get recorded, then get shipped back out.  So 2.3 ms is really closer to 5.  Still, that shouldn't be a problem, any more than standing 5 ft from the monitor in a live situation.  Still, something fast tempo'ed might cause a problem, since we aren't used to hearing our voice, more like feeling it.

    Finally, make sure that that SONAR isn't feeding an output other than the direct to your interface.  You might be hearing that instead of the direct - hense the delay.  You are not hearing the direct signal but the recorded signal coming back though your mains.  Same w/ your tascam.  It is just a matter of tracking the problem down.

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    daveny5
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    Re:Direct Monitoring 2012/07/17 12:17:56 (permalink)
    Recording with an AT2020 through a Tascam 1800 with WDM driver



    Switch to the ASIO driver and set the # of samples to 256 or 128 or lower if the TASCAM can handle it. 


    You obviously are not getting 2.3 ms latency because that would be almost imperceptible. 



    Dave
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    #4
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Direct Monitoring 2012/07/17 12:28:42 (permalink)
    yeah... you want to have the ASIO driver not the MME or WDM driver..... assuming the card can handle ASIO. 

    most here would kill for 2.3ms latency..... nope..... if you can hear the delay and it's throwing you off it's more like 50ms or more... very likely over 200ms. 

    Part of the problem is you are using the AT2020 which is a USB mic.... and the computer sees it as a second sound card that is NOT synced with any sort of timing signal to the sound card in the computer.....essentially they are both running to their own clocks and that is the big reason, not the bit depth, as to why you have problems. 

    Suggestion: buy a dedicated USB Interface..... get rid of the USB mic, buy a real mic such as a good condensor, set the bit depth to 24 bits and the sample rate to 44.1K and life will be good. 

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    #5
    BlixYZ
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    Re:Direct Monitoring 2012/07/17 12:53:20 (permalink)
    forget "input monitoring" and "low latency monitoring".

    Direct monitoring is what you want for recording audio (just as you indicated in you thread title).

    I'm sure that the 1800 does a great job with direct monitoring once you have it setup properly.  
    I don't know if you would be better off in ASIO mode or not- it shouldn't matter for direct monitoring.

    as Guitarhacker said, if you are using a usb mic, then you are bypassing your 1800 and therefore will not be able to take advantage of it's direct monitoring.  This is probably the root of your problem!!!

    *** i just looked it up and there is a usb and NON usb version of the 2020- which do you have?

    grab a regular mic with XLR connector and plug it in to the 1800 to try it out.
    The 1800's software mixer should allow you to monitor with ZERO ms latency.

    Visit the tascam forums for setting it up if you are having problems (although there are lots of 1800 users here so you might get the answer just as fast here!)

    Bottom line:  Don't mess with input monitoring and low latency- Direct monitoring is the whole reason to own an interface like the 1800





    #6
    bitflipper
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    Re:Direct Monitoring 2012/07/17 13:04:38 (permalink)
    With direct monitoring, the sound goes straight to your headphones rather than passing through the computer first. This eliminates the processing overhead that results in latency (the delay you hear). But in order to do direct monitoring, your audio interface has to support it, which your Tascam does. Consult the Tascam documentation to find out how to enable direct monitoring.


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    4partmusic
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    Re:Direct Monitoring 2012/07/17 19:00:24 (permalink)
    Thanks for all the helpful comments.  

    1. I am using the non-USB version of the AT2020.  I also get the same affect with a Shure SM57 and Behringer B1.  

    2. I am going to send a note to TASCAM support tonight as I don't see in the documentation where to activate Direct monitoring. 

    3. I bought the 1800 for this very reason.  I was using a mixer with a M-audio 1010 and was always not punching the right buttons so I wanted to simplify. It makes me feel a little better that you guys are saying I can get there I just have to figure out what I am doing wrong. 

    Thanks,

    Terry
    #8
    4partmusic
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    Re:Direct Monitoring 2012/07/17 22:26:54 (permalink)
    I finally figured it out. For some reason the headphone jack is does not have much power.  I have to turn it up all the way to be able to hear it.  I also had another instrument plugged into channel 3 and I was running on channel 4.  The software ties 3/4 together for stereo recording I guess and it was messing things up for some reason.  Anyway I am direct monitoring now. 
     
    Thanks everyone.
     
    Terry
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    BlixYZ
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    Re:Direct Monitoring 2012/07/17 23:22:38 (permalink)
    sweetness
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    AT
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    Re:Direct Monitoring 2012/07/18 01:02:53 (permalink)
    Yea, a lot of problem solving is running through all the things you are doing right to find the wrong thing.  Glad you worked it out.

    Take a look at what things others have suggested, too.  You can solve some problems before they become problems.

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    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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