kjs00333
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Drum mic thresholds
Hey all, I'm recording live drums for the first time and having major difficulties with bleed through from the toms to the over heads. All the dums are being recorded MIDI with the exception of the cymbals (hi-hat, china, ride, etc etc..) which are mic'd. The overhead mics are picking up all the bass drums, snare, toms and everything else unwanted. Is there a plugin or a prefered method to stop this from happening so I'm getting my cymbals without all the other stuff bleeding through? Friend of mine said use high pass filters starting at 6k which will filter alot of it out but I'm still getting some annoying bleed through. Thanks!
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AT
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Re:Drum mic thresholds
2012/07/18 10:38:57
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I don't understand - real drums or midi? But the first thing is mic type and placement. You can cut down the bleed doing that. But the mics are going to pick up the other drums - that is what they do. The next step is to gate and eq. Eq to get as much of the other drums out of the gate signal, then use the gate to open only when the cymbals play. It ain't perfect, and there will steill be drums sounding when the gate is open, but hopefully mostly masked by the cymbals. If that is still too much bleed-through for your taste (or your client's), then you may have to play the cymbals separately. But bleed through is going to happen, and part of the sound of live drums. It adds air to the drum sound, esp. if they are midi replacement drums. But that opens up another can of worms if you move the midi at all. @
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Drum mic thresholds
2012/07/18 12:34:41
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Look into directional mic, if you want to isolate one drum over the rest of them. Also, placement of the mics and the room the drums are recorded in come into pay when dealing with bleed. A very live room will have more bleed than a room thta is very well treated. Miking drums takes allot of time, experience and effort to get them right and there are many variables that come into account. There is no plugin for this.
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Sidroe
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Re:Drum mic thresholds
2012/07/18 15:28:44
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My two cents for free. Bleeding is what makes drums sound REAL. I and many other of my musician friends, especially DRUMMERS, hated drum machine sounds for years because they did not sound authentic whatever you did to edit them. When you start gating and eqing a full kit so much, it begins to sound like a drum machine even if it is a real kit. Now with programs like Toontrack and FXpansion, etc. The first thing you notice is the ability to get some of that crosstalk that earlier programs or machines didn't have. My take is that if you are going to have to gate and eq the devil out of a real kit, you may be better off using drum replacement programs or just use a machine. It's going to sound fake anyway. As long as you have a decent sounding room and good mic positioning you should be able to get a good to great drum sound recorded. Don't worry so much about eliminating every trace of one drum from anothers track! Many great recodings were done with one mic in the middle of the room! Most all of the great drum sound you hear from the 60's right on up to today are done with the 4 mic setup. Kick, Snare, and close overhead left and close overhead right. That configuration is still popular today. As long as the kit sounds good and the performance is solid just hit RECORD! Maybe try getting with some different drummers and experiment before you do any serious recording just to get the idea of what goes into a good drum session. Just my opinion. Above all, have fun with this. Learn what works for you and stick with it.
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Sidroe
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Re:Drum mic thresholds
2012/07/18 15:32:25
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BTW, the last Cakewalk seminar was a very well done class on just this subject. Go to CakeTV Live and watch the Larger Than Life Drums seminar for more info.
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Sidroe
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Re:Drum mic thresholds
2012/07/18 15:33:41
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OOPS! Webinar not seminar! Sorry! LOL
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JazzSinger
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Re:Drum mic thresholds
2012/07/19 09:31:26
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Overheads are not what you need because in your case, you do NOT want the acoustic ticking sound of the stick hitting the rubber pads in the mix. What you need is close-mic'ed cymbals. Place one small-diameter directional (NOT omni) condenser (Rode NT5, Beyerdynamic TG I53c, etc) on each cymbal. Position each mic on an imaginary line through the center of the cymbal at the height equal to the radius of the cymbal. This is where you get a balance between maximum separation and minimum proximity effect (very unpleasant in cymbals.) Point the mic to where the stick strikes the cymbal. Feel free to experiment with the distance. If you now apply your high-pass filter and mix the cymbals judicially (they do not need to be loud in the mix), you should get good results. EDIT: You might consider re-playing the cymbals over the recorded midi pads whilst listening back to the first pass over headphones.
post edited by JazzSinger - 2012/07/19 11:24:22
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JazzSinger
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Re:Drum mic thresholds
2012/07/19 09:39:28
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PS: 6kHz may sound a bit unnatural (unless that is what you are going for). I prefer 2kHz.
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vanblah
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Re:Drum mic thresholds
2012/07/19 10:06:55
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What exactly is bleeding through? The sound of the stick hitting a drumpad? Is it really louder than the sound of the drums when mixed or are you soloing the cymbal channel and hearing it that way?
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stonehedge
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Re:Drum mic thresholds
2012/07/19 10:11:47
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hi pass all cymbal mics below 500Hz
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