Helpful ReplyFilm scoring exercise using video imported from DVD or Blu Ray

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JMBrown
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2012/08/15 01:05:35 (permalink)

Film scoring exercise using video imported from DVD or Blu Ray

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This is a long post with a lot of technical questions, but I'm certain the answers are simple.  

I hope I don't get a bunch of weird flames about how sonar isn't to be used to score films (cuz it is), and sonar isn't a video editor (cuz that ain't what I'm doing)... 

I want to score a film with no existing non-diegetic music as a learning exercise, and I'll be doing a 5.1 surround mix.  There are several films that would be good for this, available on DVD and Blu Ray.    I'm unfamiliar with various encoding standards and file wrappers and translation software available.  A few questions:  

(1) Importing to Sonar  

 I want to extract the video and audio from the DVD or Blu Ray, and wind up with:  

(a)  a video file that is a manageable size "scratch copy" of the original to play back in sonar (say, an MJPEG in an avi wrapper), and     

(b)  6 separate high quality audio files of pure/uncompressed audio data with the same bit depth and sample rate as the original, that will sound exactly like the original.    This must be do-able with a few file manipulations, but I don't know what software to use or what steps to go through.  I suppose I need to start by defeating some security features and rip to HD with a full uncompressed result (never done that don't know what to use).  Then I need to somehow get the AC3 or DTS file out of the ripped master movie file.  Then I need to get the 6 audio files out of the AC3 or DTS (or something like that), then I can import those audio files as 6 audio tracks in Sonar.   I may be mixed up, but that work flow seems logical to me.  

 - What is the simplest work flow and what software is good for these steps?    

 - Also, when playing a video in Sonar as a scoring reference, does Sonar ignore audio that might be contained in the movie file, or perhaps automatically extract it into 6 audio tracks (seems unlikely)?  Or do I need to make a special video file with no audio?   

 (2) Exporting to DVD or Blu Ray  

After I'm done creating my cues in Sonar, and I'm happy with the surround mix, I'll have 6 new audio tracks (the original content with my stuff added for each channel of the surround mix).  I'll then need to get that back into a into a DVD or BLU-Ray, along with the original high quality high res video stream, and have that be playable on any standard DVD or Blu Ray player equipment.  

(a) what do I do after the final master surround mix is done - can Sonar create an AC3 or DTS file?  if not, whats the process to get there?  

(b) once I have the 6 tracks from Sonar encoded into an AC3 or DTS file (I guess thats what you need), I want to combine that with the original high res video file that I originally extracted from the DVD or Blu Ray, and burn that onto a DVD or Blu Ray.  Again, the final disc should play in any player just like a commercially manufactured disc. What software, file formats, etc. do I use?   

(3) Overall sync?  

 Do I have to do anything to preserve the synchronization between the video and audio streams throughout this process, or is that just going to happen automatically?  

I have Sonar X1d Production Suite, so I should have all the latest bells and whistles (and bugs!).  I've got plenty of HD space, lots of ram, a fast machine, blah blah..  just need to know what SW and what file formats and work flow to use to accomplish the above.    

Thanks y'all!  Joe 

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    Freddie H
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    Re:Film scoring exercise using video imported from DVD or Blu Ray 2012/08/15 02:01:25 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
    Hi Joe!
     
    Make a long story short. You need to convert the movie to other format as:
    ●
    Windows Media (.wmv and .asf)
    ●
    Video For Windows (.avi)
     
    ●
    MPEG Video (.mpg)
    ●
    QuickTime Video (.mov)
     
    When I work with film projects you usually can ask the Film/ TV Company, Production Company or the director for the right format that you want to use. If you need to extract and convert it yourself use a program called ANY VIDEO CONVERTER that is free.
     
    [link=http://www.any-video-converter.com/products/for_video_free/]http://www.any-video-conv...oducts/for_video_free/[/link]
     
     
    Hope it helps!


    -Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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    Jimbo 88
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    Re:Film scoring exercise using video imported from DVD or Blu Ray 2012/08/15 10:03:52 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
    Very impressive project.  I use to get picture from clients that came to me on a DVD (now it is all Quicktime files thru the internet).  I had a ripper program (as Freddie talks about)  that was around $39. I think it was called "Xripper".  The 6 tracks for surround I don't know about.  I have not heard of a program that will rip that out for you.  I'm not sure it exsists.  

    I would get the audio out in stereo and mix your music in suround.  if you want to get real crazy recreate some of the audio elements yourself to mix in surround.

    I work with a cheap version of Sony Vegas to score in Sonar.  Here is my working procedure:

    1) after ripping (or just getting the QT files)  I load the complete picture into Vegas.  I add visual Time Code if there is not TC already.

    2) I find the scenes (spot the film) that need music and edit "Streamers" into the picture.  streamers are just page rolls that scroll 2 seconds across the picture and become a visual cue for me and other musicians.  They cue me into where music starts, stops, changes or hits.  It makes the scoring process way quicker.

    3) I have Vegas generate the scene that needs music into an Mpeg1.  I will create a seperate Vegas file for that scene and place the 1st frame of the music scene at the 10 second mark.  I import the Mpeg1 into Sonar.  I do not like the idea of importing the whole film into Sonar.  It is just asking for too many problems.

    4)  Once imported into Sonar the picture audio will have its own track and you score to pic just like composing a song.   I go to prefrences and input a SYMPTE offset to match the Time Code in the picture.  This allows broadcast waves and OMFs to timestamp the music/audio and place itself in the correct place.

    5) I create my music then export the music back into Vegas.

    Normally I create a stereo wav for Vegas and send a new Quicktime file back to the client for approval.  When the music is approved I mix down 7-10 stems that I export into an OMF.  I will be incontact with the audio mixer and give them the music in the format he/she wants.

    I have no experience mixing surround,  my music has been mixed that way,  but I just turn in stems on an OMF.

     


              

     
    post edited by Jimbo 88 - 2012/08/15 10:11:11
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    JMBrown
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    Re:Film scoring exercise using video imported from DVD or Blu Ray 2012/08/15 21:34:05 (permalink)
    Jimbo 88 - 

    Very awesome to read about your workflow; its so useful to find out how others get their work done.  Thanks for the tips on Vegas, adding visual TC, and adding Streamers.  I did find a load of options to rip files off DVD and Blu Ray.

    Sounds like you don't hassle with surround because your product is music, and if it sounds great in stereo, then you leave the surround to the surround guys.  I've heard that most film music goes front left and front right anyway - is that really true in your experience?

    Out of curiosity, how do you decide what to group into sub-mix stems to be most useful to the mixing house?
    Thanks for your insight.

    Joe

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    JMBrown
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    Re:Film scoring exercise using video imported from DVD or Blu Ray 2012/08/15 21:44:06 (permalink)

     
    When I work with film projects you usually can ask the Film/ TV Company, Production Company or the director for the right format that you want to use. If you need to extract and convert it yourself use a program called ANY VIDEO CONVERTER that is free.  
    Cool beans, I'll check out ANY VIDEO CONVERTER - free is always of interest to me! 


    Thanks Freddie!  

    Joe
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    Jimbo 88
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    Re:Film scoring exercise using video imported from DVD or Blu Ray 2012/08/15 22:16:06 (permalink)
    Jimbo 88 - Very awesome to read about your workflow; its so useful to find out how others get their work done. Thanks for the tips on Vegas, adding visual TC, and adding Streamers. I did find a load of options to rip files off DVD and Blu Ray. Sounds like you don't hassle with surround because your product is music, and if it sounds great in stereo, then you leave the surround to the surround guys. I've heard that most film music goes front left and front right anyway - is that really true in your experience? Out of curiosity, how do you decide what to group into sub-mix stems to be most useful to the mixing house? Thanks for your insight.

     
    I just work in stereo.  Most of my music is for TV, although it is all mixed for surround nowdays also.  As far as stems,  I speak with the audio mixer and discuss what they would like and depends on the type of music and instrumentation.  Usually it is just common sense.  Many times there are whooshes and hits that need to be frame accurate so that goes on a seperate track.  Solo instruments have a track.  upper Orchestra (Or just strings)  lower Orchestra. Any Elec/Acoustic Basses have a track
    Rhythm (Gtr/Piano/synths).  Percusion will always have a stem or maybe 2.
     
    Stems (in my world) are created for 2 reasons.  
    1) To allow the audio guys to fix music when 
            a) picture gets changed 
            b) Client no longer is 100% happy with music and wants something different (most of the time subtracting something fixes the situation)
    2) My mix is not that good.  The audio guys are way better mixers.
     
    A far as mixing in surround,  I'd leave that to someone who wants to be a mixer.  You have to ask yourself...Do you want to be a mixer? or a composer?  Or perhaps there is a market for someone who is pretty good at both.   
     
     
        
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