I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW!

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marcus3
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2012/09/02 20:12:21 (permalink)

I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW!

I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW!
 
Is it normal for your left arm to cramp?
I can barley practice without it cramping up with in few minutes.
 
I can play mein hanons perfect but mein left arm just wont let me.
So it can't be tech. Can't be cause I use mein right for everything can it?
 
Could be way I'm sitting? I'm round 5'9 in height how far should I sit from the piano?
 
The piano comes very easy to me Dosn't take long for me learn new tech.
 
Thanks
#1

15 Replies Related Threads

    spacealf
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    Re:I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW! 2012/09/02 20:53:29 (permalink)
    It may if you do not use it as much as the right hand. I don't practice that much anymore (until I start doing that) but if you want to exercise your fingers then "The Virtuoso Pianist" is the book to get. 60 exercises to build up your fingers. You may have to see a doctor, as my arm does not cramp up. Does your arm cramp up when you type? Same type of thing or similar. I sit from the keyboard where I am comfortable for both my feet (pedals - volume - hold) and arms don't get too tired. Too far back, and you may use your arms more to hold them out. I'm about a foot away, and a little taller (inch or so). I think if you lean your back may have something to do with it also.

     
     
    #2
    marcus3
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    Re:I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW! 2012/09/02 21:13:47 (permalink)
    Know mein left arm hurts holding book when write some times.  "The Virtuoso Pianist" I play that book everyday mein goal is 16th notes at 108 tempo. Right now I'm doing book one hanons 1-10 I can do think all them at 60 but mein left arm just won't let me keep going. So figure start ten. What been doing is 7,8,9 and 10 at 60 till perfect. 
    Though it takes me not long get hanon down to keep practicing mein left arm cramps.  


    Well I sit little back mein elbows hands are how they should be. Should I lean in little you saying?

    #3
    spacealf
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    Re:I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW! 2012/09/02 21:19:31 (permalink)
    I don't lean in much, but I have a synth, and use both feet also (volume and hold pedals) so I adjusted the stand for the synth so when I sit on my 24" stool I am comfortable. Right height for the synthesizer and stool height for me because sitting too low for me does not work.

     
     
    #4
    marcus3
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    Re:I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW! 2012/09/02 21:27:55 (permalink)
    Well the piano I'm playing on "Williams symphony digital piano" That comes built in cabinet. 
    #5
    marcus3
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    Re:I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW! 2012/09/02 21:43:19 (permalink)
    You know when I watch Lola Astanova perform she leans little. Maybe if I got extra piano teacher who here not just on skype. You know to help body movement. 
    #6
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW! 2012/09/02 21:54:58 (permalink)
    A good local piano teacher will do wonders for you. 

    Find one and take some lessons. 


    My teacher used to talk about proper setting posture to me all the time. 

    And something about letting my fingers do the playing. 

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    #7
    marcus3
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    Re:I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW! 2012/09/03 00:05:42 (permalink)
    I did but the lady never got back. The teacher i use on skype great he just can't see everything.

    I found mein problem "Cerebral palsy" very mild though is effecting the left arm. 
    It's not relax though I feel relax.  

    I can play beautifully if not for this cerebral palsy make it hard learn new tech.

    Thanks 
    #8
    sharke
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    Re:I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW! 2012/09/03 00:21:27 (permalink)
    Are you saying you have always had cerebral palsy, or did you come to that conclusion from Googling symptoms? Because unless you were already known to have it, it's very unlikely that that's the case. 

    Not being a keyboard player, I find it much harder to play with my left hand and so I usually stick to inputting parts that can be played with one hand. And yes, my left hand cramps up if I try to play the same as what I'm playing with my right hand. It's just a keyboard thing - I can play classical guitar to quite a high standard so it's not as if my left hand is underdeveloped. But it's a very different position to the guitar. 

    If you have problems with the muscles or tendons in your arms, i.e. "tennis elbow" or tendinitis or any related issue, I would recommend the use of a "Therabar." The exercises which are done with it work wonders for arm and tendon problems. I used one to cure myself of tennis elbow. 

    http://www.amazon.com/Thera-Band-Flexbar-Hand-Exerciser-Tennis/dp/B000P7YMW0 
    #9
    samhayman
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    Re:I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW! 2012/09/03 01:04:03 (permalink)

    Hey marcus,

    Here's how to sit properly at the piano.
    1) Stool height. It should be adjusted so that your elbows are at a level or slightly higher than the keyboard. This means that your forearm is either parallel to the ground or else sloping down towards the keys.

    2) How to sit on the stool. Just at the very edge. The only part of your body that should be touching the stool is the small of your back. In other words, the edge of the stool should be in line where your thighs meet your behind.

    3) How far out. Put your hands on the keyboard as if you're about to play. Now bring your elbows together as if you are about to touch them with each other. Can you do that or is your torso in the middle? You need to clear that space for your elbow so if you can't bring your elbows together, you need to nudge the stool backwards. So... just to test your position - fingers on the keys, elbows together with a little gap between them and your stomach. Got it? :)

    4) The back. Sit up straight and arch your back a little - there should be an imaginary string running from between your shoulder blades, down and over the hollow of your back to the lower backbone, so that the string is not touching your vertebrae. A bit like this: 'string' -> |) <- 'hollow of your back'.

    5) Drop your shoulders! If you keep your shoulders up towards your neck, it means that you're tensing up. This will translate into tension all over your body.

    6) Your wrists should be firm but subtle - just tense enough to achieve enough control. You can practice relaxation like so: -

    Lift your arm up about a foot from the keyboard. Concentrate on relaxing it as much as possible. Drop your arm like a dead weight as if your fingers / palm will go right through the keyboard; a bit like a ghost hand.

    The minute you hit the keys (it's irrelevant what you hit), tense up just enough so that your hand doesn't fall off the keyboard. Then bring the wrist up into its proper position (wrist-elbow parallel to the ground).

    With this exercise / experiment, you'll discover that that's all the tension / strength you need to make a sound come out of those keys.

    7) Should you lean forward? No. It will give you back problems and put tension on your inner elbows. The only time you should lean forward is when you want to use your body weight for a fortissimo passage. Try playing hard on the keys with your arms only and listen carefully. Now try to "lean into" the keys when your fingers hit the keyboard. Done properly, you will notice you get a fuller 'rounder' sound when you lean in because you're putting your whole body weight into it. There is a whole lot of physics of why this happens, but that's beyond the point for now.

    A few more notes: -

    Do you keep breathing normally while playing? If not, it means that you're tensing up. Usually this happens during difficult passages. If that's the case, slow it down. When this happens, it means that our brain hasn't figured out yet how to play that particular passage, so we slow it down until we get it perfect. Then speed it up.

    Stop practicing Hanon. It's a waste of time. Hanon is just a bunch of exercises that are completely and utterly UN-musical. Think about it - it's 60 exercises meant to improve your trills in 3-4 and 4-5 fingers, stretches and whatnot...

    You're MUCH better off practicing real music which has real-music-situations. And while you're practicing you are not only improving your technique, you're also practicing on how to be musical - which is the most important bit of the whole point of practicing.

    Study Bach - it's great on all aspects of technique. Chopin will improve your touch. You're interested in stride piano? Chopin is your guy! Liszt will make you want to conquer the pieces he wrote.

    These 3, and countless other composers will help you practice what Hanon is doing for you but in a much much more productive and MUSICAL way!

    One last thing: If you are dropping things from your left hand, it could be a bad case of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. Go to a doctor NOW. Ideally go to a doctor who specializes in sports injuries.

    Don't procrastinate on these things - if it's CTS, you might end up needing surgery to fix it. If it develops into tendinitis, you're off playing for months if not years before full recovery. And I'm sure you don't want that. I don't mean to scare you - these are things that happened to some of my colleagues because of bad posture and technique.

    I hope this helps,
    Sam
    post edited by samhayman - 2012/09/03 01:07:24
    #10
    backwoods
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    Re:I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW! 2012/09/03 01:22:01 (permalink)
    Nice to see some fellow Hanon users in this thread! I used to hate that thing.  

    I hope you get the cramping sorted out marcus3, maybe try slowing down a little and aiming for fluidity/even-ness. Always use a metronome.  Eventaully you'll be able to go through the whole book in one sitting from memory.

    Disregard the advice about disregarding Hanon- it's a solid book. 





    post edited by backwoods - 2012/09/03 01:27:59
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    droddey
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    Re:I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW! 2012/09/03 02:01:54 (permalink)
    I play the piano less than the guitar, but if learning the piano as a first instrument is anything like learning the guitar, some of it may just be concentrating so hard that you are fighting yourself. It's a big problem with newbie guitar players. You are straining so hard and squeezing so hard because you are tensed up from trying to play and get your brain ahead of your hands. Then later you realize that it takes almost no pressure at all to do the same thing.

    Dean Roddey
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    #12
    samhayman
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    Re:I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW! 2012/09/03 02:26:50 (permalink)
    backwoods


    Nice to see some fellow Hanon users in this thread! I used to hate that thing.  

    I hope you get the cramping sorted out marcus3, maybe try slowing down a little and aiming for fluidity/even-ness. Always use a metronome.  Eventaully you'll be able to go through the whole book in one sitting from memory.

    Disregard the advice about disregarding Hanon- it's a solid book. 


    Speaking for myself and many other colleagues of mine, our teachers used Hanon ONLY to address some specific problems. So if I had a problem with a trill in my 3-4 fingers, I would do one exercise from Hanon 10mins a day for a couple of days. But that's it.

    The only reason why Hanon is hated by all is because Hanon is unmusical and completely boring and unexciting. Any idea how many students are put off by the sight of that book and quit playing altogether?! One needs a lot of discipline to sit through 60 minutes of mind-numbing repetition, whereas it takes much less effort trying to learn a Bach prelude or some Chopin nocturne or etude, which presents the same kind of challenges that Hanon does but in a musical context.

    Apart from the total unmusicality of Hanon, it creates more problems than it solves. If you have a problem with tensing up like our friend here, Hanon will only amplify it and give you an RSI. If you spend one minute practicing a particular Hanon exercise meant to solve a particular problem as noted before each exercise, you spend one minute tensing up a particular set of muscle fibres which is not good at all!

    Whereas in a musical context, you come across a bar which contains a trill or fast octaves of what have you, and that's it - you quickly move on to the next bit. This kind of practicing works because our brain is an amazing tool and there is something called post-practice improvement - the minute you play something, given that you are playing it in a correct manner, the brain will put it on the side and stay 'working on it'. Which is why the next time you play the same piece, you notice an improvement (again, if one is practicing correctly).

    We don't practice our fingers. We practice our brain-nerve connection. When you "get that trill" it's not your fingers that are suddenly agile enough - it's your brain having learnt how to fire those neural impulses so that your fingers can play it smoothly and faster.

    So there are things like post-practice improvement. There are also things like the anti-clicks that the brain creates when you constantly use a metronome - that's when your brain shuts out the metronome completely and it eventually makes your timing worse and completely destroys your inner clock and sense of pulse. It's good to practice with a metronome but only for a few moments to fix 'problem areas'.

    I'm a concert pianist and I didn't just study how to play the piano. I studied music in a holistic way and I know the 'how' and the 'why' things happen in certain ways and not others. The most amazing pianists in the world do not spend hours a day slaving away at the keyboard - they just spend a decent amount of time practicing properly.

    I reached concert level with barely looking at Hanon or any other "exercise" books like Czerny at all. All I studied was musical pieces without having to resort to boring study-methods.

    In essence, I studied Music, not exercises!

    "Of course, you can play scales, Hanon and Czerny’s Etudes for hours every day, but if you’re practicing incorrectly, there will be no progress. Even worse – if played for too long, these ‘boring’ technical exercises will not allow a complex development of your musical perception. Play them for some minutes before starting to work on the pieces, but remember to concentrate on the quality of the sound and on the arm posture as well!" ~ pianocareer.com (my emphasis)

    post edited by samhayman - 2012/09/03 02:28:47
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    Beepster
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    Re:I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW! 2012/09/03 12:34:44 (permalink)
    If it is getting that bad you should talk to your doctor to check it out and then see about getting you to a physiotherapist. Yes it is expensive but you might only have to go once unless there really is some damage aside from cramping. They can show you some stretches and exercises to keep the tendons limber and build up strength. There are some therapists who deal specifically with music related injuries so if you can find/afford a session with one of them it's even better. For now get a couple of those hot/cold gel packs and keep one in the freezer. After you finish playing and the hand/arm is cramped up grab the cold pack and apply it to the area for 10 minutes or so and toss the other pack in the microwave while you ice the area. Then replace the cold pack with the warm one. Do this twice. It will take down a lot of the swelling which is what's causing the pain. Also ibuprofin (Advil) helps. If you have ever taken any kind of martial arts do some of the hand/wrist stretching exercises before playing and that should help a lot. I could try to describe some stretches for you but I'm not sure how well they will translate into text. Most of all though... a little pain is okay to work through but a LOT of pain means you should stop, shake off and wait out the cramp and then return to playing again. Practicing scales to warm up and simple patterns first will also help avoid cramping.
    #14
    Beepster
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    Re:I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW! 2012/09/03 12:37:52 (permalink)
    BTW I suffer from a condition that completely messes up my entire body so I am constantly battling cramps, pulled muscles and tendonitis. I have had to learn many tricks and techniques to keep being able to play... and it still hurts like crazy sometimes. Good luck.
    #15
    marcus3
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    Re:I NEED PIANO ADVISE! NOW! 2012/09/04 02:59:49 (permalink)
    Yeah do hanons mein teacher figure be best do some hanons on mein left hand to excessive 4th, 5th fnger. Also some scales. As for tech he not concern I pick up easy plus compose mein own work.

    I did contact doctor they wrote for PT come out. Been waiting on some gloves sense July of 2011.
    And sorry for your cramp not easy fight thanks and you to.  
    #16
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