Should I feel STUPID or is it an oversight? [:D]

So after years of playing & doing things the Live way then messing with my first DAW for 3 years.  I am going back to the drawing board and starting from step 1 again (PreFader Levels)

I have been racking my brains trying to get my stuff to come together better and I think I know where I am going wrong.
Normally setting up to record I do all the usual stuff outside the DAW like mics placement, connections, equipment levels for clipping, etc... Then I get my input levels good through the board and into the interface just right. Bring up Sonar, load my template, and set the recording levels there.   (This is where I think Ive been mixing wrong)
I go ahead and complete my tracks as needed saving often, then its time to clean up tracks, and all the mixing stuff.

So tonight after days of reading, listening, questioning, and on... In console view for the first time I happen to see the option to set all tracks to prefader-at which point it hit me, what I record and see on the meters is not what is actually going on after recording and checking initial recording levels in Sonar. ie...my actual levels prior to mixing anything were either to low or to high and NOT where they should have been or I thought they were recorded at. 

Why did I assume that if all was set good externally to the interface and what was showing on the meters in Sonar when recording meant I didnt have to recheck it all again Prefader mode on the Sonars tracks before any mixing.

Anyway I closed out of X1, loaded up an old project, killed ALL fx, moved all the faders to -6 dB.
Then I selected Prefader mode on all tracks and set the levels there with the gain -/+ to where they should have been (somewhere between -6 to -12 dB depending on the track). Hit play and what a world of difference. With out all the plug-ins it sounded a world better and CLEANER with more dynamics. So I started messing the plug-ins I had previously inserted. I noticed that all the gates, compressors, eqs, and all the other plugs were really responding differently.

So Im wondering with all this in mind, do I record the way Ive been by just loading a standard 16 ch temp and come back before the MIX and set Prefader levels first or

Do I set the Template prior to recording to Prefader and watch the levels as recording is going on?

Im brain farting here (or just lost as usual)

Any thoughts on ho or what I should change or do with this process?

Nah, it was more of a finding as to my process prior to hitting "Record"

I never checked X1 PreFader Levels (which appear to be way off if you dont set them by the prefader reading for me). 

I went back to an older recording and reset everything. Started a complete remix starting with adjusting the Tracks PreFader levels first and then going from there and noticed a huge difference in what I was putting out as an end product. Just better and PlugIns seemed to work better (Not so much messing around when you load PlugIn presets and their levels etc..)

Since starting the recording side I just overlooked this first and simple step Setting PreFader Levels). Havent had much time to mess with it but what Im finding for my process is completely worth the effort.

I guess my main question would be,

How are others recording with X1 when setting up input levels they see in X1 on the Track that they are recording to?

Are your levels set by watching prefader or postfader on the meters?

Heres another way of looking at it

You set your levels without any clipping all the way from guitar and mics through your interface to your computer.

Once it hits X1, can you overdrive/clip X1 prefader and not catch it because you forget to check prefader and set the recording level by adjusting the sldier and the track until your happy with what is registering on the meter postfader.   (I think thats an easier explanation?) LOL

Thats kinda what I thought to. Maybe Im seeing something wrong or misinterpreting it.

Ill do some experimenting and maybe try to do a video to show what Im talking about.

Beagle


   you want your gain stage to be outside the box and the DAW to record exactly what the hardware outputs.

And thats exactly what I thought. Im going to really mess with this theory today and Ill let ya know what I find.


Thanks Reece, much appreciated!!!

Mike I'm starting to feel stupid everytime I sit down at a computer.
I felt pretty smart all this week until I tried to download X2. LOL.

I don't see any reason for things to change when and if I get to use it....
and if it works.

I did watch the video though and noticed that if you do do something follow quickly
with "save". Brandon made that much clear.

So why would these jump on tracks that much requiring backing Prefader Gain Levels back down.

I'm not following what you mean here.  how are you "backing prefader gain levels back down?"

digi2ns


Try this on one of your projects

In Console View  Click on "Options"  "Meters"  "Track Meter Options"  Select "Pre Fader" 


Here you will notice what we have always known-Meters are NOT effected by fader positions.


Go up and adjust your gain levels on the tracks.
Can you move it or are you stuck with what was initially recorded?

are you talking about the GAIN slider on the tracks?

Beagle

digi2ns


Try this on one of your projects

In Console View  Click on "Options"  "Meters"  "Track Meter Options"  Select "Pre Fader" 


Here you will notice what we have always known-Meters are NOT effected by fader positions.


Go up and adjust your gain levels on the tracks.
Can you move it or are you stuck with what was initially recorded?

are you talking about the GAIN slider on the tracks?

In CV, the Gain potentiometer at the top of each track or buss

OK that must be where my prob is either with MAudio control panel registering incorrectly or somewhere between X1 confusing what is coming in too what I am actually seeing initially setting up for recording. 

Hard to grasp when I look at everything that no clipping is going on ANYWHERE-Hardware, Interface, or X1.  Then go back in and check levels after recording and have clipping or very low inputs.

I know when I do live stuff on my Allen Heath, the first thing I do after all equipment is setup and snakes are all ran is sound check starting with the gain inputs and pad as needed working my way down each track to the faders. 

Seems like Im using this software outa whack  

Beagle


so you're saying if you have the gain pot at 0dB and the slider at 0dB and you toggle between Pre and Post fader meters, the numbers don't match?

No, I dont think it should either unless you get lucky at hit the fader position just right.


Is the PreFader signal registering on the meter (with the gain pot set at 0dB) what was initially recorded when you setup and tracked and is now coming into X1 through that track assuming NO other FX or Plugins have been added or turned on?

spacey


Mike I'm starting to feel stupid everytime I sit down at a computer.
I felt pretty smart all this week until I tried to download X2. LOL.

I don't see any reason for things to change when and if I get to use it....
and if it works.

I did watch the video though and noticed that if you do do something follow quickly
with "save". Brandon made that much clear.

Spacey-Some how my Forum software missed ya, its showing now and Im bouncing around the room screaming "Im Not ALONE"  after reading your post