Helpful ReplyI am a newbie to midi and soft synth

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PLBPRODUCTIONS
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2012/10/07 20:15:22 (permalink)

I am a newbie to midi and soft synth

By the way thanks Cakewalk for the upgrade to X2 at the incrediable price.
 
Here is what I am using  quad core 3.0 ghz processor 4 gigs ram M-audio fastrack c600 Windows 7 dual monitors. key board input controller USB Yamaha PSR-S500 also have a midi controller USB sitting in the closet M-Audio Axiom 61 which also has USB Midi (which has been sitting in my closet for 2 years now because I know nothing about midi.)
 
Here is my problem.
 
As I mention I am new to X1/now X2
 
I had no problems laying the audio tracks 6 of them to be exact
 
I layed a bass track using softsynth rapture x64  that came out well
 
I layed a basic, bass drum track using Dimension Pro x64 that also came out well
 
My problem now is when I go to add a third Soft Synth track like Dimenson Pro or Rapture to add  rim shots to compliment my bass drum I get no sound and the meter on the channel is not showing any input. It is selected like the previous 2 soft synth, I just assume I go with it without problems, but it will not let me add another soft synth that way. Why?  Is 2 soft synths the limit? If not why is the third one now working like previous 2? No changes were made to settings.
 
Now as far as midi I have no clue as to how it works or how I set it up to work. I assumed using the keyboard I have is using the USB Midi but I have no idea on how to set it up, using the banks midi channels or patches, as in this small town there is know one I have found that can explain it to me, as they are old fashion just plug it in to amp person like me. I am computer savay but midi just makes me feel dumb as hell. I want to use it just can't get the basic of it. every book and video I 've gotten online has been worthless in explaining in simple mans terms how to use it.
 
So if I can't use a third soft synth, then I suppose I have to use a midi channel. If that is the case can someone Help me get this going. In a simple mans language if possible. I want to be a midi geek to someday but right now I just don't get it.
 
I have been using several recording softwares for years but,  meerely for audio now I want to add those extra things I don't know how to play. Are you the one that can make me the midi geek I want to be?
 
What I know about Midi
 
Input is not a sound merely and input the software makes the sound. Thats about it. Please get me past this.
 
 
Thanks in Advance
 
Peter
 
#1
Fog
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Re:I am a newbie to midi and soft synth 2012/10/07 21:08:27 (permalink)
remember rapture / dim pro don't own with a default sound... so you have to open up the interface and specify one

some patches don't use the full range of the keyboard (normally drums) also.

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sharke
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Re:I am a newbie to midi and soft synth 2012/10/07 21:13:37 (permalink)
You can have as many synth tracks as your computer's processing power/memory will allow. It sounds like you need to check the input setting on the track - it should be set to your MIDI controller. 
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PLBPRODUCTIONS
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Re:I am a newbie to midi and soft synth 2012/10/08 00:59:29 (permalink)
Doesn't make sense Sharke, since no setting are changed. All I do is insert soft synth and pick the one I want to use. (which was demension pro strings) Yes I know it comes default with no instrument, but even  if I pick an instrument I get no sound or input level. I should be able to pick a soft synth indefintely as long as I don't change anything on the key board, at least I think that is true. Am I wrong here?

I do notice when I add the third soft synth with dimesion pro I don't get the record button for that channel, it is replaced with wave form preview off  button, and the echo button is gone. And the other two channels that worked show just a keyboard icon were as the third one shows a keyboard with a midi icon.

So I did and experiment I used cakewalksoundcenter and got sound back and the record button, but could only use the mouse to make sound on the on screen keys when I hit the record button nothing was recording. No midi messages and the echo buttons turns on. So I shut off the echo button press record again and the echo turns itself back on. I still have the sound but it not recording the sound.

Why is this so fricking hard I can plug in 20 different instruments and get good results I start messing with midi or soft synth and it becomes hard.

Again I repeat I go to insert soft synth then add the program  then select the sound I want then I get no input from the keyboard but only on the third, fourth fifth maybe more as never went further, soft syth without changing any settings.

The last few things I want to do is seperate the drums and cymbals and strings which is about 10 more tracks and I can't do it it will not let me. I get to the third soft sythn and it stops recording.

Please help I can't explain any better than this cause I'm not sure why it would stop since no settings have been changed.
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sharke
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Re:I am a newbie to midi and soft synth 2012/10/08 01:33:27 (permalink)
I think I have an idea what you did. When you go to insert a soft synth, an "Insert Soft Synth Options" window appears. Look at the options which are headed "Create These Tracks." What is selected? If you're just looking to insert a simple synth track, you should have "Simple Instrument Track" selected. It sounds like you have "First Synth Audio Output" selected instead. 

You'll eventually learn what these options mean if you read the manual, but for now you should make sure the settings are as described if you just want to insert a simple synth track. 

 
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:I am a newbie to midi and soft synth 2012/10/08 01:47:33 (permalink)
This video may help with MIDI routing and set up.

There should be no need to change MIDI channels as long as you are using another instance of a soft synth. In fact Dim Pro I believe only responds to channel 1 as does Rapture unless in multi-timbral mode.

I'd suggest having a look at the video I linked to and then if that doesn't help ask some more specific questions but one more thing to remember is that the meters will not show any input if the audio engine has turned off which you can check by looking at the transport module control bar.
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robert_e_bone
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Re:I am a newbie to midi and soft synth 2012/10/08 04:30:15 (permalink) ☄ Helpful

Hi there, Mr/Ms Plbproductions - Peter, and welcome to X2 and to our community family.

We are all here to help each other - I will try to run you through some midi basics, and explain how to get soft synths connected to audio tracks so that you can hear output.

Let's start with MIDI itself - I will be brief.  MIDI is an acronym standing for Musical Instrument Digital Interface.  It is simply a communications method, using a standardized bunch of parameters, that allow multiple devices (synths, drum machines, effects, amps, wind controllers, keyboard controllers, etc) to talk to each other.  

No sound itself is transmitted through midi - only information ABOUT sounds is transmitted, about CONTROLLING sounds, and a set of special messages called System Exclusive messages (things like banks of presets for a given synth, for example).

Soooo, if I have a midi-capable synth (most use USB connectors these days to transmit MIDI data), connected to a computer, and I press a note on the synth, it will transmit information ABOUT the note and sound through MIDI to the computer.  IF the computer is set up - to either record that MIDI event, or to process that event through a soft synth, then things like recording software will be able to 'capture/record' that event, and the synth will (if set up properly to do so) will play a note DRIVEN by the received midi event you triggered from your external keyboard.

So far so good - got that out of the way.  So let's get things working in YOUR environment.

What appears to be missing on your end is an understanding of how it all works on your computer, so that you know how to connect the dots to record and playback sounds using synths that live in your computer, specifically within Sonar.  No problem.

Let's identify the 'dots' that need to be connected, then I will explain how to connect them in Sonar, so that sounds play audibly.

First, you need to have a synth loaded up into Sonar's synth rack.  The process of doing that will display some options that I will explain in a little bit.  Just think of having the synth in the rack for the moment.

OK, so we now have to associate the synth with 2 tracks in Sonar, an audio track - to actually hear the sound from the synth, and we need a midi track to connect it all together - the midi track will do 3 things: 1 - provide a place to capture/record/playback midi data, 2 - connect to your synth so that it is THAT synth's sounds we will hear when we play back the recorded midi data (and hear it while we are recording or even just practicing and getting levels and picking sounds), and 3 - the midi track connects 

1.  Synth in synth rack - this will react to midi input and process it to produce sound as output
2.  Midi track - this is where Sonar will record and playback captured midi events, such as notes, mod-wheel data, after-touch, etc.
3.  Audio track - this is where the processed sound from the synth will become availble to a bus, so that you can hear the sounds produced by the synth.

So, how do we connect these 3 'dots', as it were?

OK, let's set up a project in Sonar to get 3 synths into the synth rack and the audio and midi tracks needed to be able to record and playback the sounds from the synths - AND be able to hear them.  In this, you will hopefully understand how it all fits together.

I also have two controllers, by the way, a Yamaha home piano (just bought it for the 76 notes), and an Axiom Pro 61.

1.  Open Sonar X2, and click on Create a New Project.  Name the project Midi Test, and tell it to use the 'Normal' template.  (later on you can experiment with lots of other templates, but we need to pick one for our example).
2.  Sonar will display a pretty blank work space - you will have an inspector pane to the left, at the top will be the control bar and transport controls, at the bottom will be the console, and to the right will be the Browser pane.  The browser pane is also where the synth rack lives.
3.  Let's load 3 synths into the synth rack.  To do this, do the following:
     1. In the browser pane, click at the top of it on the little button that says Synth.  This will change it to display the synth rack, which is where we will load the 3 synths.
     2.  Click on the '+' sign and then on Insert Synth.  This will open up the list of available synths.  We will be picking synths that came with Sonar.  Choose Dimension Pro for the first synth.  This will open up a dialog box called Insert Soft Synth Options.  For purposes of connecting the dots, I will be hainv you do a couple of things manually - later on you can pick different options.  For purposes of our connecting the dots project, make sure that ONLY the following boxes are checked: in the section under where it says 'Insert synth into project and:' uncheck all of these boxes.  In the section under 'Open These Windows' check Synth Property Page'.  At the bottom, under Display Automation - leave those how they are already set.  So we will ONLY be telling it to add the synth to the synth rack and then to open the properrty page (synth interface).  Click on OK, and it will add Dim Pro to the synth rack and will open the Dim Pro synth interface.  Once that opens, click on where it says ERmpty Program, and then pick a sound - let's pick a guitar sound - click on the '+' sign by number 8 - Guitars, then click on the first one - Almost Together.  That will load that preset into memory for Dim Pro.  Close Dim Pro.
     3.  Now we will add 2 more synths and pick presets, just like we just did.  At the top of the Synth Rack, click on the '+' sign again and Insert Synth - Pick another instance of Dim Pro - we will use another copy of Dim Pro and another sound for our 2nd synth.  Make sure that only the 'Synth Property Page' box is checked, like we did in the last step. Once you click OK, it will again open up Dim Pro (A completely new copy of it), and this time load the first Grand Piano preset - click on the '+' sign next to 11 - Pianos and select the first Grand Piano in the list.  Close Dim Pro
     4.  Again click on the '+' sign at the top of the Synth Rack, and then on Insert Synth, and pick SI - Bass Guitar.  Make sure that Synth Property Page is the only checked box, and click OK.  When the synth's interface opens up, this one has a default loaded up already, so we will just use that one for our project.  Go ahead and close the synth property page for SI - Bass Guitar.
4.  OK, so now we have 3 synths loaded into the synth rack, and all 3 have presets loaded into them.  They should be: Dim Pro with a guitar preset, another copy of Dim Pro with a grand piano, and SI - Bass Guitar with the default bass preset.  You will see each of these in the synth rack.  Now it is time to get some tracks created and then assigned to the instruments and to a bus on the console.
5.  In the smaller empty space in the track pane - just under the button that says 'Custom', right-click to open up the options for that part of the screen, click on Insert Audio Track.  Sonar will create an audio track for you, 'Track 1'.  Let's rename that - double click right on where it says 'Track 1' and name the track 'Guitar' and hit enter.  You will see the track name change to 'Guitar'.
6.  Now right-click just under the Guitar audio track, and click on 'Insert Midi Track'.  Sonar will create a midi track for you, just under the Guirar audio track.  It will be called Track 2.  Rename that to 'Guitar Midi' and hit enter.  We now have a paired set of tracks that we will use in a bit for getting guitar midi to the first Dim Pro in the synth rack, and to take the sound output from that synth and send it to the Master bus so that we can hear it.
7.  Now insert 2 more pairs of tracks, an audio track called 'Piano' and a midi track called 'Piano Midi', and another pair of audio/midi tracks called 'Bass' and 'Bass Midi'.  We now have all of the tracks we need for our project, but we have to assign their inputs and outputs to tie it all together
8.  Down at the bottom of the screen, in the Console Pane, look at the Guitar track (track 1).  We are going to assign the track's input and output.  Click on the little arrow just to the right of where it says 'None' under In/Out for the Guitar track down in the console.  This will open up a drop-down list of inputs to pick from.  Hover your mouse on the Dim Pro 1, and it will open another list to the side - choose Primary Stereo.  This will set the input of the Guitar track to pick up the output sound from our first copy of Dim Pro from the synth rack (with the Almost Together guitar sound).
9.  We will leave the Output for the track set to the Master Bus.  (You can send it to whatever bus you want - like a bus for all of your keyboards, for example - all of that comes later).
10.  OK so now, we have to change the inputs/outputs on the Guitar Midi track, to finish the setup for our first synth - the Dim Pro 1 you see in the synth rack, with our guitar sound loaded.  So, this time, click on the little arrow to the right of where it has a bunch of smashed together letters - should be something like '1DmnsPx64' on track number 2 (named Guitar Midi).  This will open up a list of synths where Sonar will send any midi events from that track.  It may already be set to our first copy of Dim Pro, but make sure it does - we should use Dim Pro 1 for this track.
11.  We did not mess with changing the Input for the Guirtar Midi track, because it by default will accept midi events from ANY midi device, and for now that's fine.  Later on, as you get more comfortable with working with Midi, you can set things up in more advanced ways - for our project we just want to hear sounds, so don't worry about it.
12.  We now have everything set up for our forst synth.  Let's finish doing the same for the other sets of tracks, then we will begin playing and recording each different set of sounds.
13.  OK, so let's set up the audio and midi inputs and outputs for our Piano.  It will be a repeat of what we did in steps 9 and 10 above, except for the audio track for the Piano, (track 3 - labelled Piano) we want to set its Input to use the output from Dim Pro 2 - Primary Stereo.  (That's the Piano sound output channels from the 2nd copy of Dim Pro).  We also want to set the Output for the Piano Midi track (track 4) to Dim Pro 2.  (That's our 2nd copy of Dim Pro itself - with out Piano sound).
14.  Do the same for setting the audio and midi inputs and outputs for the Bass and Bass Midi tracks (5 and 6), setting the Bass track's input to SI Bass Guitar - Primary Output:Stereo, and the Bass Midi track Output to SI Bass Guitar.

Once the above steps are completed, we have everything set up.  We have our synths loaded with presets in our synth rack.  We have stereo audio tracks set up to use the sound output from each synth.  We have midi tracks setup to send any midi events for each midi track to the correct synth in the synth rack.  It's time to make sure it's all working.

Soooo, to test out hearing sound output for each synth, we want to test each one.

1.  Click up on the number to the left of track 2 (Guitar Midi) to select it.  You will notice that the number for the track changes to blue, and the same for the little box on the track that is the Input Echo Thru button.  With this track selected, playing a note on your connected midi keyboard should send a midi note event to the 1st copy of Dim Pro in the synth rack, with our Almost Together guitar sound on it, and since there is an audio track set up to send any signal from that synth to the Master Bus, (track 1 - Guitar), you should now hear guitar sounds playing.  If this does not happen, you might not have told Sonar about your midi keyboard - in other words it might not be enable in the Preferences as a usable midi input device.  So if you hear no sound, go to Edit>Preferences>Midi>Devices and make sure that your keyboard is checked for a midi input device.  If it does not appear here, then it is not present as a device in your computer and you have to make sure the drivers for it are loaded for it (Check in Device Manager, under Sound, Video, and Game Controllers.   

2.  If you DID get sound to play when you had the Guitar Midi track selected, then you did everything RIGHT for the first sound - our first copy Dim Pro, and it's time to check the other 2 sounds.

3.  So, now click on the number to the left of the Piano Midi track (track 4 - labelled Piano Midi).  You should see the number of track 4 change to blue, and it's Input Echo/Thru button also change to blue.  Now play notes on your keyboard and you should hear grand piano sounds.  

4.  Now check for sound from the Bass Midi track, by clicking on the number to the left of track number 6 (Bass Midi), and play some notes on your keyboard - you should hear bass sounds playing.

If all of the above are working, then you can go on to arm one of the tracks for recording, start with the Guitar Midi track - select it by clicking on the track number (track 2 - Guitar Midi), and then arm that track for recording by clicking on the red button on that track.  Hit 'R' for record, or click on the red Record button at the top of the screen in the Transport Controls, and it will start recording.  Play a bunch of notes for a few measure - jibberish is fine - we just want to make sure that SOMETHING is recording.  Click on the Stop button in the Transport Controls, or hit the space bar, and the recording process will stop.

Hit the Play button in the Transport Controls, or hit the space bar again, and playback will begin.  You should hear Guitar sounds playing back, and you should see little bits of midi data showing in a midi clip for that track.  Go ahead and stop the playback - either hit Stop or hit the space bar.

When done recording for the Guitar Midi track - DO NOT forget to unarm the track.  You do not want it to record on the Guitar Midi track when we are intending to record on the Piano Midi track.  So click again on the Guitar Midi track's red 'Arm for Record' button to disarm it.

Now, record something for the Piano Midi track - select the track by clicking on the track number (track 4 - Piano Midi), Arm it for recording by clicking the read 'Arm for Recording' button on the track, and start the recording process (Hit the 'R' key or click on the red Record button in the transport controls).  Record some piano notes for a few measures - let's stay with our jibberish theme.  Stop the record process (hit the Stop button or hit the space bar.

Now, let's playback - hit the space bar again to start playback, or hit the Play button in the transport controls.  This time, we should hear BOTH the guitar jibberish AND the piano jibberish.

Lastly, record some more jibberish for the Bass Midi track.  DON'T FORGET to disarm the Piano Midi Arm for Recording button first.

After recording some bass jibberish, stop the recording process, disarm the Bass Midi track, and start playback again.

THIS time, our jibberish symphony should start playing back - with notes from all 3 synths playing distinctly what was recorded on each track.

At this point, you have DONE IT!  (or not, in which case we have to revisit one or more of the steps above, and it will suck doing that)  So let's hope that instead all is working like we intended and that you have successfully gotten through setting up and recording multiple synths in Sonar.

If you are indeed not able to hear anything, or are having a great deal of trouble with my explanations as to what to do, PLEASE send me a private message and I will give you my cell phone and I would be happy to walk you through the whole thing over the phone.

Bob Bone

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
#7
robert_e_bone
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Re:I am a newbie to midi and soft synth 2012/10/08 20:59:51 (permalink)
Did you get this stuff figured out yet?  Just curious, 

Bob Bone


Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
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PLBPRODUCTIONS
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Re:I am a newbie to midi and soft synth 2012/10/09 21:56:18 (permalink)
nope can't get any sound midi meters are working and recording to channel but no sound
 
 
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robert_e_bone
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Re:I am a newbie to midi and soft synth 2012/10/09 22:06:55 (permalink)
OK - I will send you a private message with my cell number.  Can you please give it a sec to get to you and then give me a call?  I will try to work with you to get this working.

OK?

Bob Bone


Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
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robert_e_bone
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Re:I am a newbie to midi and soft synth 2012/10/09 23:05:35 (permalink)
Alrighty!

Other than your computer hanging at the end of it all, we made good progress on getting the whole midi/synth/audio trifecta to play nice together and give you audio output.

Per our discussion, I await your next call, and will work with you some more on getting thins recorded and some basic Sonar stuff.

It was a pleasure to assist you, Peter.

Bob Bone

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
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