Adjust entire track volume automation?

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M@ B
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2012/10/08 18:58:01 (permalink)

Adjust entire track volume automation?

Hello, I'd like to attenuate the entire track volume automation in unison. If i'm understanding the manual, this is done in Offset Mode? But it didn't say much about how to adjust the automation envelope. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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    Bill Jackson [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Adjust entire track volume automation? 2012/10/08 19:10:47 (permalink)
    This is a mode you enter.  While in this mode, you can offset the overall level while keeping all of your relative automation the same.  Turn it on by pushing this button:





    The fader will no longer move with the automation data, but you'll still hear the changes.  Move the fader down, to taste.  Then exit offset mode.

    It's a difficult feature to explain.  But basically, in offset mode, you're adjusting the level before the automation is taken into consideration.  This allows you to give the automation more or less to adjust, without having to adjust the nodes and mess up their relationships to each other.  

    Hope this helps.

    Bill Jackson
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    #2
    Silicon Audio
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    Re:Adjust entire track volume automation? 2012/10/08 19:30:20 (permalink)
    Sometimes it's useful to send a track to an intermediate bus and do all your automation on the bus. Then you can use the track volume fader as more a gain-staging fader to bring everything up or down. I discovered this use when I wanted to send top and bottom snare mics to a bus so that I could automate overall snare volume. It dawned on me that I could also do it with a just single track and get the same benefit. Sure it means more buses, but hey, they're unlimited in Sonar, so why not?

    "One of the great and beautiful things about music and recordings in general is that legacies live on" - Billy Arnell - April 15 2012
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    Bill Jackson [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Adjust entire track volume automation? 2012/10/08 19:32:39 (permalink)
    Silicon Audio


    Sometimes it's useful to send a track to an intermediate bus and do all your automation on the bus. Then you can use the track volume fader as more a gain-staging fader to bring everything up or down. I discovered this use when I wanted to send top and bottom snare mics to a bus so that I could automate overall snare volume. It dawned on me that I could also do it with a just single track and get the same benefit. Sure it means more buses, but hey, they're unlimited in Sonar, so why not?

    Not only is that a good tip.  But that's an excellent analogy.  I'm gonna borrow it next time I'm in a position to explain Automation Offset.  Thanks!

    Bill Jackson
    Product Manager
    Cakewalk

    #4
    M@ B
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    Re:Adjust entire track volume automation? 2012/10/08 20:23:57 (permalink)
    Hello Bill. Thanks for a super fast reply. I'm using X1Expanded, don't see the button you're pointing at. ---------- Thanks Silicon Audio. I usually do what suggested, but i've been wanting to learn how to boost/cut the entire automation for a little while now. Thanks again.

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    Bill Jackson [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Adjust entire track volume automation? 2012/10/08 20:27:53 (permalink)
    The "O" key will do the same thing.

    Bill Jackson
    Product Manager
    Cakewalk

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    M@ B
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    Re:Adjust entire track volume automation? 2012/10/08 20:48:19 (permalink)
    Oh, ok, I think i've got it now. Thanks again, your explanation helped.

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    congalocke
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    Re:Adjust entire track volume automation? 2012/10/08 20:57:31 (permalink)
    Awesome info everyone involved;-)
    #8
    M@ B
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    Re:Adjust entire track volume automation? 2012/10/08 21:15:41 (permalink)
    This is great!

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    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Adjust entire track volume automation? 2012/10/08 22:03:59 (permalink)
    Offset mode is one of the lesser known gems in SONAR. Its by far the easiest way to make quick overall adjustments when you are getting close to done with a mix and already have automation committed on the track or bus. 
     
    Want the track a touch louder in the mix, just switch to offset mode and bump the track volume offset level - no fuss. Its essentially a free extra gainstage that is available to all mixer parameters in SONAR.  The first thing I do in any project I'm mixing is set the offset gainstaging to get a basic mix before I start doing envelopes. That way I always have control of the basic overall levels even after I have automation envelopes. You can also affect more than one track or bus at a time by using quick grouping.



    Noel Borthwick
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    #10
    garrigus
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    Re:Adjust entire track volume automation? 2012/10/08 22:04:40 (permalink)
    And if you want to adjust the envelope itself (by moving the entire envelope up or down), you can (using the Smart Tool) position your mouse above the envelope so that it changes shape to 4 pointing arrows. Then click and hold the left mouse button and drag up/down.

    Scott

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    konradh
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    Re:Adjust entire track volume automation? 2012/10/08 23:21:05 (permalink)
    Bill, When I touch O am I in Offset mode for all tracks or only for the selected track?
     
    Scott, You are correct, but I find it extremely difficuly to make a fine adjustment that way.  If the current level is -9.2 and I want to go to -8.2 (or so), I have not been able to do it without editing individual nodes (which is tedious).  If there were a way to drag the envelope more carefully or in steps, that would be a more useful feature.
    #12
    M@ B
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    Re:Adjust entire track volume automation? 2012/10/09 00:10:49 (permalink)
    Thanks Noel. Yes, Offset mode is very useful, i love it already. I'll try your approach on one of the next mixes. ------- Thanks Scott. I think what you described is what i had in mind. I suspect that doing it that way does not effect the fader movement following the automation data. ------- Konradh, It sets all the channels into offset mode. When you press the "O" key, you'll see a "+" sign show up next to volume on all channels. This denotes offset mode.

    #13
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Adjust entire track volume automation? 2012/10/09 01:49:46 (permalink)
    konradh


    Bill, When I touch O am I in Offset mode for all tracks or only for the selected track?
     
    Scott, You are correct, but I find it extremely difficuly to make a fine adjustment that way.  If the current level is -9.2 and I want to go to -8.2 (or so), I have not been able to do it without editing individual nodes (which is tedious).  If there were a way to drag the envelope more carefully or in steps, that would be a more useful feature.


    Holding the shift key down after the left click will slow the rate of movement down which may or may not be fine enough depending on how fine you want it to be.
    #14
    synkrotron
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    Re:Adjust entire track volume automation? 2012/10/09 02:18:30 (permalink)
    Offset Mode sounds like a great tool, but I've never used it before, and totally by accident I used the method described by Silicon Audio above.

    http://www.synkrotron.co.uk/
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    konradh
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    Re:Adjust entire track volume automation? 2012/10/09 09:37:34 (permalink)
    Thanks, FBB, but as mentioned but not completely answered in another post on this topic, when I press, O I see a + only in one track.  I have tested this repeatedly and cannot make Offset work as documented (although admittedly, the explanations in the Cakewalk and thrid-party books are very cryptic to say the least, almost as though the tech writer did not understand the function).

    There is also another possibly related issue: when I turn Write on on a track, the perceived volume changes radically.  Example: Fader set at -9.  I click W on the track.  The fader does not move but now I can barely hear the track even though it was strong before.
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    stevec
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    Re:Adjust entire track volume automation? 2012/10/09 10:36:52 (permalink)
    Do you use any custom keybindings?   It almost sounds as though they're remapped to different functions.
     

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    #17
    John
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    Re:Adjust entire track volume automation? 2012/10/09 11:05:15 (permalink)
    There is a way to change the entire envelope with the smart tool. Click on the top part of the clip or track and move the envelope as one including all nodes. Its quick and neat. This was also in X1.

    Best
    John
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