Tripecac
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X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
I like to use multiple MIDI tracks for my drums: one track for kick, one for snare, one for hats, etc. All those MIDI tracks go to the same synth instance (e.g., Session Drummer 3). I'd like to start using drum maps, but I've concluded in this post that I should probably be using track templates to store my mapped drum kits so that I don't have to set them up manually for each song. However, the track template feature apparently only lets you store one track as a template; it doesn't let you store multiple tracks in a single template. This is fine for a single-midi-track synth like a bass or guitar part, but it doesn't work with multiple-midi-track synths like a drum kit, piano (left and right hands in separate tracks), horn and string ensembles, etc. So I'm wondering what our options are for saving sets of tracks as a template, so that we can load them up in other projects. Is there such a thing as a track folder template? Or should we use be using track lanes instead of individual tracks? What do you guys do when you want to insert a synth with multiple [named] MIDI tracks already assigned to it? (And for drums, those MIDI tracks all need to be assigned to the correct drum map).
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Mystic38
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Re:X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
2012/10/10 16:18:42
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If you make a folder with all the tracks then save the folder as a track template..I have done this for the Virus Ti.. so it launches the vst with the correct options, adds multiple midi ins, names the midi tracks and adds track icons..
So i am sure you can do the same for a drum set folder
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rcrees
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Re:X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
2012/10/10 16:21:15
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Mystic38
If you make a folder with all the tracks then save the folder as a track template..I have done this for the Virus Ti.. so it launches the vst with the correct options, adds multiple midi ins, names the midi tracks and adds track icons..
So i am sure you can do the same for a drum set folder
...what he said :-)
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Tripecac
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Re:X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
2012/10/10 16:22:09
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How do you save the track folder?
If I right click on an empty space for an individual track, I see "Save as Track Template...". I don't see that option for track folders.
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Mystic38
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Re:X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
2012/10/10 17:08:58
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Tripecac
How do you save the track folder?
If I right click on an empty space for an individual track, I see "Save as Track Template...". I don't see that option for track folders.
ctrl click on all the tracks in the folder in the top left portion (so all the track select blue squares is lit)..the folder itself will also be lit. right click on one of these tracks and "save as track template"..
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Tripecac
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Re:X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
2012/10/10 17:24:49
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Awesome! That worked!!!
Do you often use track templates like that when working with Cakewalk and Native Instruments synths?
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Mystic38
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Re:X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
2012/10/10 18:33:44
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Tripecac
Awesome! That worked!!!
Do you often use track templates like that when working with Cakewalk and Native Instruments synths?
oh yup.. its time well spent making them. I made a default project template with the skylight and layout of screensets i am comfortable with, whihc made a huge difference.., then made track templates for (for example) Maschine with 8 audio outs, all with icons and which also launches its own "drums" bus with icon, and for the Virus, with 4 midi inputs, three audio outs and track names and icons.. in addition to saving time when launching, having the same layout each time aids familiarity..
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Tripecac
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Re:X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
2012/10/10 19:15:23
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which also launches its own "drums" bus with icon Does this mean you control-clicked the bus before saving the tracks as a track template? Is the in the bus pane, or is it actually an audio track? One thing that has me excited about track templates is that I can finally create a default project with no tracks in it! Right now, my default project has 4 instances of Kontakt loaded (drums, bass, piano, organ), which take a while to load, and then I have to delete [or replace] those Kontakt instances if I decided to try other synths, and I'm never sure how much "residue" is left behind. Starting off with a blank slate for each project will not only save some time when starting a project, but will also encourage more variance in the instrumentation. In other words, I won't feel "pressured" to keep using the same 4 Kontakt instances in each song... You mentioned screensets... How often do you switch screen sets? I've never used them, since I always tend to have track view on my right monitor and piano roll on the left, with synth and fx windows treated as temporary popups (which I don't keep open long).
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robert_e_bone
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Re:X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
2012/10/10 19:25:23
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Hey - question - why do you use 4 separate instances of Kontakt?
All of those instruments can be loaded into a single multi-rack within 1 copy of Kontakt.
I do this all the time.
Bob Bone
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Tripecac
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Re:X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
2012/10/10 19:46:13
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Hey - question - why do you use 4 separate instances of Kontakt? I tried using a single big instance of Kontakt for all my MIDI instruments before, but found it cumbersome. I ended up switching to Simple Instrument Tracks (where each track gets its own Kontakt instance), and found that much easier to manage, though I don't know if it's less efficient. For drums I have a bunch of tracks pointing at a single Kontakt instance. The important thing is that each Kontakt instance only has one instrument in it (unless I am layering different drum kits together, which is rare). So each Kontakt instance represents a "musician". This setup lets me avoid thinking about MIDI channels and output routing. More info here if you are curious: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2253267
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robert_e_bone
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Re:X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
2012/10/10 20:56:49
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Well. for whatever the worth,
I set up a different midi channel for each instrument loaded into the Kontakt multi-rack. So, if I have piano, bass, rhodes, I set up and name 3 midi tracks to mirror that.
The routing steps are the same from using one instance or 3 - you are still connecting each midi track to a synth, and connecting each audio track to a set of outputs from a synth. The only extra thing I do is SUPER simple - where I use the batch function in Kontakt's Output Section to clear the output section and recreate with 1 channel for each loaded instrument. That takes like 3 seconds.
The benefit is a reduced memory foot print, which makes for faster loads and less work for Sonar/computer.
Personal choice - try doing that Kontakt routing batch function once on a test and you will see how quick it is. I would bet money that it takes less time to do that than to wait for multiple Kontakt instances to load every time I opened a project.
Just a thought - give it a try,
Bob Bone
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Tripecac
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Re:X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
2012/10/10 22:13:59
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The routing steps are the same from using one instance or 3 - you are still connecting each midi track to a synth, and connecting each audio track to a set of outputs from a synth. When I add 3 instances of Kontakt, sonar automatically adds a Simple Instrument Track (or an audio/midi pair) with the ins and outs already connected. I like not having to go into Kontakt and fiddle with MIDI channels or output routing. I haven't tested multiple-konkakt vs single-kontakt performance and memory in a while; do you know of a recent post or page which shows results?
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robert_e_bone
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Re:X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
2012/10/10 22:51:59
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As I said, it's a personal preference thing.
I don't have numbers on a performance comparison -I have operated both ways, and the load time for me is quite a bit better with a single instance of Kontakt then it is with 3 or more instances.
If it is working how you want it to, then set up the tracks in whatever manner gets you there.
If you are on the other hand having slow load times when using multiple instances of Kontakt, then I would suggest that you give it a try on loading multiple instruments and doing track assignments for instruments 2 and 3, (assuming there that you would have opted to create 1 instrument track on the initial load of Kontakt).
It is my opinion that it would take less time - for the single time you would have to do it - to set up the multiple instruments, run the batch function to set up internal routing, and create.assign tracks - then it would to wait for 3 instances of Kontakt to load, more or less just to avoid doing some rudimentary track assignments.
It is your choice -test out both ways or don't - your choice - your results. You expressed some dis-satisfaction with the load times, and I would think that would motivate you to try to tweak what you are doing to see if it improves performance.
Bob Bone
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
2012/10/11 02:29:26
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While there's nothing wrong with track folders in template and it's probably a better option for you in this case it is possible to have more than one track in a template without them. Track templates will recall everything that is associated with any selected tracks when you save them. SO if you have 10 tracks all assigned to 10 different synths running through a dozen busses each with 5 effects on them, that's exactly what will be saved as the track template. All you need do is select the tracks and select "Save as track template". I use track templates for all of my busses as well. Just set up one track routed through the required busses and then save that as a template. To insert the busses insert the saved track from the template option and then delete the track as soon as it's created. You'll be left with the buss structure. You mentioned screensets... How often do you switch screen sets? I've never used them, since I always tend to have track view on my right monitor and piano roll on the left, with synth and fx windows treated as temporary popups (which I don't keep open long).
I use them constantly. I couldn't count the number of times I switch screensets in a session, especially when mixing. I've posted elsewhere on my current screenset crop but one example is I have a screenset with just tracks and another one with just busses. I'll constantly switch between them while I'm mixing and tweaking, I don't even think about it any more TBH. I've completely forgotten what it's like to scroll the console or track view windows.
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Tripecac
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Re:X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
2012/10/11 02:46:06
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FBB, I'll watch your mammoth video as soon as I finish Eli's. So maybe my question will be answered there...
...but what I'm wondering is if you have recorded any examples of your end-to-end workflow on a project. So, instead of instructional/tutorial examples focused on illustrating specific features, an "end-to-end" video would show how *you* build a project from scratch. That, to me, would be very interesting to watch (after absorbing the tutorial info first, of course).
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
2012/10/11 03:51:13
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I haven't but that it is a good idea. Finding the time to do it would be the biggest problem, but it certainly is something I'd like to do at some point. It'd have to be from a bedroom studio/hobbyists perspective though. I do record bands but I have to convert my lounge first as well as sweet talk the wife, the rest of it is done in my hallway (vocal/guitar booth) and my 'play' room. Keyboards/bass etc. Luckily I don't live in a built up area and nearby neighbours aren't an issue.. 
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Mystic38
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Re:X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
2012/10/11 07:45:50
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Tripecac
which also launches its own "drums" bus with icon
Does this mean you control-clicked the bus before saving the tracks as a track template? Is the in the bus pane, or is it actually an audio track?
One thing that has me excited about track templates is that I can finally create a default project with no tracks in it! Right now, my default project has 4 instances of Kontakt loaded (drums, bass, piano, organ), which take a while to load, and then I have to delete [or replace] those Kontakt instances if I decided to try other synths, and I'm never sure how much "residue" is left behind.
Starting off with a blank slate for each project will not only save some time when starting a project, but will also encourage more variance in the instrumentation. In other words, I won't feel "pressured" to keep using the same 4 Kontakt instances in each song...
You mentioned screensets... How often do you switch screen sets? I've never used them, since I always tend to have track view on my right monitor and piano roll on the left, with synth and fx windows treated as temporary popups (which I don't keep open long).
I think Karl covered this earlier, but saving those multiple tracks as a track template also saves the synth folder and any associated bussing/routing.. so when you insert a track template it creates the bus for you... a great time saver. Screensets is a personal preference of use, I use two or three regularly.. its just quicker to hit one of the keybinds than it is to shrink a dock or *gasp* move a window :)
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robert_e_bone
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Re:X2 - Track templates for synths with multiple MIDI tracks
2012/10/11 11:29:49
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You guys and your fancy shmancy screen sets :) - (I have truthfully been FAR to lazy to use them)
You guys inspire me to give them a try - I am finding LOTS of encouraging posts out here about some of the things like the screen sets, and since I am having a hard time BREAKING X2 - I'll devote some time to trying out some of the time savers - such as screen sets.
Thanks for the motivation,
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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