Soft synth playback where am i screwing up?

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jazzman
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2012/10/13 01:16:17 (permalink)

Soft synth playback where am i screwing up?

sonar x2    If for example. i open an instance of session drummer with a simple instrument track and place any kind of midi into the track the softsynth will not respond as the notes play back during transport. I can manually select them on the PRV and they will sound. I can also freeze the track and the proper notes will be there but for some reason neither the sess drummer or tts 1 (the ones ive tried) will play back when transport is activated. I've tried every thing I can think of...no go. must be something simple I'm missing   
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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:Soft synth playback where am i screwing up? 2012/10/13 02:22:12 (permalink)
    Check the MIDI buffer size in Prefs-->MIDI--->Playback & Recording-->playback. Set to 500 assuming they are at the default of 250.

    Having said that it would be unusual not to hear any notes because of that setting.

    Select the notes and have a look at the "event inspector" module in the Control Bar. What channel are the notes on? Does Session Drummer play if you click on the drum graphics in its interface? I assume the note velocities are not at zero?

    Is the volume down on the track or bus that it's routed to?

    That's a few things to check to get started with. 
    #2
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:Soft synth playback where am i screwing up? 2012/10/13 02:33:15 (permalink)
    I would not set up Session Drummer or any multi output vsti as a Simple Instrument track.

    You immediately lose the main benefit of the multi output capability which is to route the channels for Kick, Snare, hat etc to their own track in Sonar where you apply different dynamics & Fx

    Try setting it up as a normal "Split" type and see if this works

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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    #3
    robert_e_bone
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    Re:Soft synth playback where am i screwing up? 2012/10/13 05:32:58 (permalink)
    I don't normally do this, but I find myself agreeing with Bristol - (kidding - just kidding - it was too easy to pass up).

    Sonar gives us a really special position of having PRECISE control over every aspect of our drum sounds, in that when we are using midi drums we can literally control everything to do with each drum/cymbal.  To accomplish this, we have to set the midi output for each component of the kit we are working with to go to a separate audio track, giving us the ability to apply different levels and effects (as well as coming back and swapping out individual drum or cymbal sounds later to better fit the mix).

    So, in other words, as Bristol initially explained, you will get WAY more control over the sounds later by setting it up initially to have each drum and cymbal go to its own audio track, and you just cannot do that in this situation by using Simple Instrument Tracks.

    We'll figure out what is wrong with things and get that fixed for you - may take some back and forth posts to do so - but let's start by getting you set up to BEST position yourself for later advantages in mixing. OK?

    Alrighty then, let's set up your synth and tracks to use a regular midi track for the drum events, and multiple audio tracks for each of your drums and cymbals in SD3.

    1.  Let's start with a new project, to use as a clean example for this.  Create a new project, using the Normal template.
    2.  OK, now insert Session Drummer 3 into your synth rack, checking the following options in the Insert Soft Synth Options dialog box:

    • Midi Source - this will insert a standard midi track
    • Synth Track Folder - this will insert everything here into a track folder
    • All Synth Audio Outputs: Stereo - will insert an audio track for each stereo output the synth has.
    • Synth Propert Page - to open the interface for SD3 so we can configure it
    3.  After you check the boxes above and hit OK, Sonar will create a track folder for all of these tracks, a midi track for the SD3 events, and audio tracks for each supported stereo output from SD3.  It will also open the SD3 interface.

    4. Once in the SD3 property page, load whatever kit you want to use.  Let's for this example use the Acoustic - SonicReality_ClassicRockKit.
    5.  After selecting our kit, we need to configure the outputs fo that each drum/cymbal goes to a different stereo output.  We do this in SD3 by clicking at the top on 'Mixer' (the Drumkit and Mixer buttons toggle the display between looking at the drums and looking at the mixer).  So, click on that Mixer button.
    6.  In the Mixer display, there are options for changing tuning and levels.  You can tweak tuning here (we won't for our example), but I leave the levels flat here and use the Sonar channel strips for adjusting levels and adding effects.  What we DO want to change here are the outputs for each kit component (drums and cymbals).  At the bottom of each channel strip in the mixer here is a place to set the audio output channel for each of up to 12 drums/cymbals in SD3.  By default, they all say 1.  Adjust each of the outputs here so that each drum or cymbal goes to its own audio output channel (kick can go on 1, snare on 2, crash on 3, etc or however you want to do it).  Make those adjustments.
    7.  OK now the SD3 setup is done in our example.  If you were to play each drum now, you would hear output from each drum coming from the different audio tracks that were set up when we inserted SD3, since we re-routed the drum/cymbal outputs.
    8.  By default, when we did the insert of SD3 with the boxes checked as we did, Sonar will place the midi track at the bottom of all of the audio tracks within the new track folder it inserted.  Since all of the drums in our example will be using the same midi track, I like to grab and drag the drum's midi track up to be the first track within the track folder.  It's just easier to find up there instead of at the bottom - personal choice there, so whichever works better for you is fine.

    Soooooooooo, when the above is all done, you should have functioning drum sounds being routed to a bunch of tracks.  

    Now, lets test out recording some midi drum events and make sure it plays back - which is really what your post indicated what you were having trouble with.  Bristol and I just added the above stuff here because we knew that at some point you would most likely benefit from having more control over the drums than you would have using the method you indicated in your post.  So with that out of the way, let's test it out.

    1.  Drums are usually recorded on midi channel 10, so let's begin by setting the midi output channel for our SD3 midi track to channel 10.  This will cause each of our recorded midi events for SD3 to be captured on midi channel 10, which is a 'nice guy' move if you ever share midi tracks with other people.  To do this, go to the Sonar console channel strip for the SD3 midi track, and look just under the FX bin for a button with an arrow that says 'None'.  (If you hover your mouse over that button, it will confess to you that it is indeed the Midi Output Channel button).  Click on the little arrow to the right of that button, and it will open a drop-down list where you want to click on 10: Session Drummer X64.  This tells Sonar to record any events captured for this track as belonging to midi channel 10.
    2.  On that same channel strip, the SD3 midi track, look at the input/output buttons at the bottom.  I usually leave the Input for this track as set to Omni, meaning that whatever midi device we feel like playing to capture and record midi events for the drum kit will work.  We don't care here what channel things are played on when we are recording our drums, we only care that they get recorded on channel 10, which we already took care of in step number 1 above.  Now, for the midi Output button's setting, you have a choice.  If you want you can use a drum map, but in our example, let's keep it simple - we are just getting sounds to output in this thread, and adding use of a drum map here would just make my fingers type a whole bunch more, and it's 5 in the morning and I have had NO coffee yet.  SOOOO, with that in mind, let's just make sure the channel's Output is set to 1-Session Drumm x64 1.  It should already be set to this as it sets all midi tracks to the first synth it finds in the synth rack, but you can set or change it by clicking on the little arrow to the right of the button and selecting the SD3 synth as the output.  This will route any midi events that come through this channel (whether played or recorded) to our instance of SD3 in the synth rack.  The numerous audio tracks that were setup for us by Sonar are already ready to take the routed output from each drum to its own audio track.  So now, all we have to do is first play something to make sure sounds come out, record some sounds, and then playback our recording to make sure everything works.


    To make sure our sounds are playing back on the various audio tracks - one per drum/cymbal:

    1.  Make sure the SD3 midi track is in focus.
    2.  Take some kind of midi controller and simply play some notes on it, and whatever drums are assigned to the notes you are playing should play through the audio tracks they are routed to.  Usually C2 or C3 will play a kick drum, midi note D2 or D3 will be a snare, and some of the nearby black keys will usually play different cymbals and hi-hats and such.  The idea here is to just make sure we are getting audio output on our various tracks.  You can even just run your hand down the keyboard to make a bunch of different drums and cymbals play.  If they are not playing, then we have a problem, and have to back and review each and every step above, from the top down, to make sure we did what we were supposed to.  Good time for a pee break - before you start trouble shooting.

    At this point you SHOULD be hearing SD3 drum/cymbal sounds, so now record some drum events:

    1.  Again, with the SD3 midi track in focus, arm it for recording, and hit either the letter 'R' on your keyboard or hit the red Record button in the transport controls at the top of the main Sonar screen, and after any count-in, start hacking at the keys on your keyboard , just for the purpose of generating some midi events to test out recording.  Hit a bunch of different keys and do a drum solo if you want.  Get out your aggression at your in-laws, make a musical statement, take a stand on life - just record a bunch of events.
    2.  Hit either the space bar, or the Stop button in the transport controls to terminate the recording process.  (It's a good idea to disarm the track from recording so that you don't forget later and end up recording drum events during your piano solo later).

    At this point you should have heard notes as you recorded, and should see some midi squiggles show up as a recorded midi clip in the track pane.

    Now, we just have to play back the recorded events to make sure all is right with our universe.  Simply hit the space bar or the Play button in the transport controls to initiate playback.

    At this point, our recorded drumming MASTERPIECE should play back and we should almost be able to hear John Bonham rolling over in his grave - but we should ALSO be hearing our recorded drum events, routed to separate audio tracks, using our selected SD3 drum kit.

    TA-DA!  (or not, in which case weeping and gnashing of teeth is to be expected and a healthy reaction - meaning we goofed somewhere and have to walk through all the steps again to find out where we went wrong).

    I TRULY hope the above works for you, and that you not only start to hear output for drums, using SD3, but that you ALSO have a powerful new technique for controlling the audio output of each and every drum and cymbal in your SD3 kit - which you will find invaluable later when you are mixing.

    If you have ANY problems, call me - I am available all day today, and have sent a private message to you with my cell phone and also my private email.

    Bob Bone

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
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    #4
    robert_e_bone
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    Re:Soft synth playback where am i screwing up? 2012/10/13 05:37:19 (permalink)
    Well, you have it set so nobody can send you private messages, so I guess we will have to do it with posting back and forth here until we get it working for you.

    OR, you could change your settings and send ME a private message, to which I will respond with my private email and cell number so that you COULD call me if you needed additional help with this issue.

    Bob Bone

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
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    #5
    miguelito
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    Re:Soft synth playback where am i screwing up? 2012/10/13 08:31:08 (permalink)
    In Track View one could also just right-click: 

    Insert From Track Template
    Soft Synth Track Templates
    Session Drummer 3
    [Select template of your choice]

    This is a good way to get up and running fast.

    Regards,
     

    Mike

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    #6
    jazzman
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    Re:Soft synth playback where am i screwing up? RESOLVED 2012/10/13 11:08:21 (permalink)
    Yes, I want to take advantage of the full output power of SD. I just was first trying to resolve why it would not sound during transport. After I figure that out I want to follow every detail of your great post and get myself thoroughly familiar with all the possibilities. Yes, the synths generate sound when played on the property page, patterns play beautifully. Notes play on the PRV when manually pressed by the mouse. Track freeze gives me nice audio of exactly what I want. Just checked the Midi buffer settings...Bingo! I had set them real low when I had attempted to troubleshoot latency issues last month. Buffer was set to 12! I re-set to 500 and bang! sounds great! Thanks for the help! Once again you guys have gotten me out of a jam! Thanks a million. Now it's time for me to explore all those outputs!  
    #7
    robert_e_bone
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    Re:Soft synth playback where am i screwing up? RESOLVED 2012/10/13 11:11:23 (permalink)
    GREAT NEWS on you finding the cause of your blunt trauma!

    You will LOVE the amount of control you will have with the multiple outputs going to their own dedicated tracks.  

    Post back when you have that working - or if you have problems getting there - keep it in this thread since I did all that typing - it will keep it all together for whoever follows later.....

    Bob Bone

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #8
    M_Glenn_M
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    Re:Soft synth playback where am i screwing up? RESOLVED 2012/10/13 11:22:18 (permalink)
    Bob it's amazing how much work and time you put into helping.
    Kudos.


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    #9
    jazzman
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    Re:Soft synth playback where am i screwing up? RESOLVED 2012/10/13 11:44:37 (permalink)
    M_Glenn_M


    Bob it's amazing how much work and time you put into helping.
    Kudos.

    I absolutely agree! I'm amazed by that post...very generous with your time and energy! I will be
    referring back to this over and over! Cakewalk needs to do something special for all you folks who do a lot of the heavy lifting helping others! Thanks again!
    #10
    robert_e_bone
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    Re:Soft synth playback where am i screwing up? RESOLVED 2012/10/13 11:44:42 (permalink)
    Thank you.

    For much of my life, I was a 'taker'.  Somewhere along the recent way, it has become important to me to be a 'giver'.

    It is tremendously satisfying to see folks - particularly fellow musicians and such - get solutions to some really creativity-blocking problems.

    I was wasting a bunch of time sitting around playing Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 , maybe 10 hours a day.  I have decided to immerse myself into recording as much of my own music, and a bunch of progressive covers as midi projects, and working with folks in this forum is an extension of that immersion.  

    I'll work on my stuff for awhile, then when I get to a logical breathing spot, I'll pop into the forum and see what sorts of stuff there is that I can contribute to solving.

    I am also disabled at the moment (well for the past 4 years, actually), with 9 herniated discs and two bad knees, from playing basketball in 15 countries and a couple of summers as a summer 'filler' player with the Chicago Bulls.  All of that basketball took a toll on me.  My real job was computer programming, for 38 years, and because of the pain and the medication, I haven't been able to work.

    So, I have time available, and because I really am driven to give back, I enjoy being able to do something productive.

    In addition, I respect the folks at Cakewalk - I have been using their software since the days of DOS, and they were and remain pioneers - extremely dedicated, and all of the users share a passion for music, so it is easy to WANT to spend the time helping where I can.

    Maybe in this community I will run across some folks who share a dream of mine - to play out some of the kinds of progressive tunes that push me to the limits of my playing.  I have been playing keyboards since I was 5, and I will be 52 in a couple of weeks.  I would LOVE to show up at one of the prog/rock festivals and have a band together to play a setlist that included: UK, Genesis, Yes, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Gentle Giant, Jean Luc Ponty, and Bill Bruford.  I KNOW these folks are out there, and if I can find them, maybe I can achieve that dream.

    So, that's it in a nutshell, 

    Bob Bone


    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #11
    jazzman
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    Re:Soft synth playback where am i screwing up? RESOLVED 2012/10/13 11:50:26 (permalink)
    A man after my own heart! Prog the way it was meant to be! Plus you play mw3? I def need help on that lol! I play mw2 mostly to keep old man calcification from setting in and to hang with my 13 yr old boy....(a .50 cal quick scoping lightning fast monster) Ha! I hate those guys! lol
    #12
    robert_e_bone
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    Re:Soft synth playback where am i screwing up? RESOLVED 2012/10/13 12:02:17 (permalink)
    my gamer tag is Hanging Fruit (it's from way back in Halo 2 from the tea-bagging days - it used to be Harry Dangles, but they made me change it for some reason).

    My Xbox kind of exploded the other day with a large pop.  I have to limp over to the Fed-Ex place around the corner and send it in - it will be down for 2-3 weeks.

    That's good news for my forum participation for the next few weeks, and I am getting FABULOUS amount of recording done,as well.

    Bob Bone


    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #13
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