ChuckC
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Found one odd bug that is easy to duplicate over and over again. Not a show stopper though
I was playing around and put an instance of the sonitus Phase plug on the master bus, on the stereo widener preset. Then I turned it off, clicked the interleave button on the bus to check in mono & while in mono & during playback I turned it the phase plug back on & got a really weird smearing of the audio. Really funky sounding. I am sure it because it's trying to change the stereo image on the fly but still pretty weird. No crash, but it smears the audio every time.
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Found one odd bug that is easy to duplicate over and over again. Not a show stopper tho
2012/10/14 03:51:40
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ChuckC
I was playing around and put an instance of the sonitus Phase plug on the master bus, on the stereo widener preset. Then I turned it off, clicked the interleave button on the bus to check in mono & while in mono & during playback I turned it the phase plug back on & got a really weird smearing of the audio. Really funky sounding. I am sure it because it's trying to change the stereo image on the fly but still pretty weird. No crash, but it smears the audio every time.
You're lucky you just got an artifact....when I reproduce your recipe, my audio drops an octave down and slows down. LOL! Sonar X1 and X2 have this thing about going mono when you have stereo effects in your bin sometimes. I noticed this with my UAD plugs when X1 was released and either Noel or Seth told me to change the interleave to stereo and it stopped the low octave thing. I know you said smearing...but if you were getting the slow motion, octave down thing too like me, I wanted to tell ya why. The smearing thing, I'm not getting that at all on this end. When in mono, none of my imagers are doing anything other than getting louder when I jack up the width and some do nothing at all when in mono. I even put the sonitus phase on a bass track which is mono, messed with the settings and it did nothing. I put the sonitus modulator on the track with the phase plug after it and it still did nothing. I pressed stereo interleave on the bass track to put it in stereo and the modulator was in stereo and the phase plug was widening the sound. But in mono, I'm not seeing anything weird other than the slow down, octave down thing on my master bus when I use mono interleave. When I turn off the phase plug, that's when the octave thing happens while in mono. Not sure what you're hearing man. Can ya post up a small audio example? -Danny
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Found one odd bug that is easy to duplicate over and over again. Not a show stopper tho
2012/10/14 05:12:51
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If it is reproducible then it would be orthy of a bug report to Cakewalk.
Good catch - I've never tried doing that combination of steps.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Silicon Audio
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Re:Found one odd bug that is easy to duplicate over and over again. Not a show stopper tho
2012/10/14 06:39:29
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ChuckC
I was playing around and put an instance of the sonitus Phase plug on the master bus, on the stereo widener preset. Then I turned it off, clicked the interleave button on the bus to check in mono & while in mono & during playback I turned it the phase plug back on & got a really weird smearing of the audio. Really funky sounding. I am sure it because it's trying to change the stereo image on the fly but still pretty weird. No crash, but it smears the audio every time.
Of course you will get strange "smearing". You are tweaking the phase and then summing to mono. What did you expect would happen? For example, there is a reason the XY co-incident pair is recommended for mono compatibility - because it has better phase coherency than the spaced AB pair, which is likely to sound strange in mono. What you are probably hearing is comb filtering to the extreme. If you didn't get that strange smearing, I'd be very surprised. This is not a bug. This is what happens when you sum channels that are several degrees out of phase. It's audio 101.
"One of the great and beautiful things about music and recordings in general is that legacies live on" - Billy Arnell - April 15 2012
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bitman
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Re:Found one odd bug that is easy to duplicate over and over again. Not a show stopper tho
2012/10/14 08:15:49
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Maybe you have something good there. With everything already done, maybe your happy accident with be the next "Sky Pilot" 
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Found one odd bug that is easy to duplicate over and over again. Not a show stopper tho
2012/10/14 10:27:47
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Silicon Audio
ChuckC
I was playing around and put an instance of the sonitus Phase plug on the master bus, on the stereo widener preset. Then I turned it off, clicked the interleave button on the bus to check in mono & while in mono & during playback I turned it the phase plug back on & got a really weird smearing of the audio. Really funky sounding. I am sure it because it's trying to change the stereo image on the fly but still pretty weird. No crash, but it smears the audio every time.
Of course you will get strange "smearing". You are tweaking the phase and then summing to mono. What did you expect would happen?
For example, there is a reason the XY co-incident pair is recommended for mono compatibility - because it has better phase coherency than the spaced AB pair, which is likely to sound strange in mono.
What you are probably hearing is comb filtering to the extreme. If you didn't get that strange smearing, I'd be very surprised.
This is not a bug. This is what happens when you sum channels that are several degrees out of phase. It's audio 101.
I thought the same thing Silicon. But try it and you'll see. I'm not getting anything on this end. Meaning, no smearing or phasing etc. I just get a change in pitch like my soundcard clock was changed when the phase plug is disabled. When enabled, there are no artifacts at all on my end. It just sounds mono and stays mono. If I bring in the Waves S-1, no change in that either other than when I adjust the width, the volume just gets louder. But again, no artifacts or phasing etc. -Danny
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ChuckC
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Re:Found one odd bug that is easy to duplicate over and over again. Not a show stopper tho
2012/10/14 11:38:11
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Danny, Yeah dude I was getting the same thing, an Octave drop & slowing down... it's like somebody put out their finger and slowed down the tape during playback. haha
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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robert_e_bone
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Re:Found one odd bug that is easy to duplicate over and over again. Not a show stopper tho
2012/10/14 13:23:03
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Keyboard stuff, I know. Midi stuff, I was there when it was invented. Recording mechanics - follow the instructions.
AUDIO stuff like what you guys call audio 101? I HAVE NO CLUE!!!!
Is there SOME sort of documentation where I could learn something about the whole audio piece of this?
I am not an engineer - just a guy who's played keyboards since the Jurassic period, but I would like to understand something about this, as I am now the proud owner of all sorts of recording power with X2, coupled with a REALLY powerful computer. I also have a reasonable set of other gear - nice guitars, a reasonable audio interface (Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL), and some good mics, so I want to get good enough to sound as good on the audio end as I do with the keyboard/midi parts of it all.
Audio info would COMPLETE ME.
Thanks for any help,
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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swamptooth
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Re:Found one odd bug that is easy to duplicate over and over again. Not a show stopper tho
2012/10/14 14:22:43
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hmmm... totally can't reproduce this... with 16 tracks of audio. might be an interface issue??
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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ChuckC
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Re:Found one odd bug that is easy to duplicate over and over again. Not a show stopper tho
2012/10/14 18:36:02
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Nahh I don't think so... my system is pretty solid & Danny was able to reproduce it too.
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Found one odd bug that is easy to duplicate over and over again. Not a show stopper tho
2012/10/14 19:24:03
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ChuckC
Danny, Yeah dude I was getting the same thing, an Octave drop & slowing down... it's like somebody put out their finger and slowed down the tape during playback. haha
Chuck, it's definitely not Sonar nor is it the phase plug. I can only make that artifact happen when there are other plugs in the chain on my master bus bin. Try it yourself and you'll see what I mean. It's some sort of plug arrangement with other plugs that makes it happen for me. For example, bring in one track of audio. Nothing on your master bus but the phase plug. Now go mono interleave and mess with the phase plug. Nothing will happen nor will it give you that slow down artifact. Add a few plugs and some PC stuff and it will happen. Something is messing with something when it's in the chain of effects. Try the project you were working on that did this, and try disabling each plug one at a time while toggling the phase plug like you were doing. You'll see once you turn the right one off, it will stop doing the slow down thing. It's some other plug messing up the system. I'm not even so sure it's a Sonar plug. I make it happen religiously in a project I have here...but I was trying something I don't normally do and that is, run my mastering chain in my master bus effects bin as well as PC plugs inside of a full blown mix. So there are so many going on, I'd have to try disabling them one at a time. Since I know what this is, and you're hearing the slow down thing, it's really nothing to worry about. It's an effect or some combination of effects that messes with delay compensation or our soundcard clocks or something. Noel told me about this artifact you're hearing a while ago. I forget what he said contributed to it...but as long as I keep everything in stereo interleave, I never hear it. Only certain effects seem to bring this on in my experience. Ah, here's an idea. The next time you hear this thing, press your PDC button in your control bar and see if it stops. -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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