X2 automation lane issues

I am having a few issues with X2 automation lanes and am wondering if anyone else has these too?  Try testing with Rapture, though they happen with every VST I've tried.

1) When inserting a track template that contains a soft synth and a midi track routed to the soft synth, automation write events do not appear anywhere in the track UI but they do playback.  When I view the automation lanes on the soft synth's audio track and attempt to manually add the automation curve with the small + button, the soft synth does not appear in the drop down as one of the sources for automation.

2) The same issue as #1 occurs when I add an instrument plugin from the Browser and have unchecked the "Ask this Every Time" option on the Insert Soft Synth Options dialog.

I have both of the above issues with Simple Instrument Tracks and the older style MIDI Source, Synth Track Folder, and First Synth Audio Output configurations for soft synths.  I am able to work around these issues by making sure the "Ask this Every Time" option on the Insert Soft Synth Options dialog is checked and not using Track Templates.


3) The starting position of knobs, faders, and buttons is not maintained properly.  For example, if I start recording with the Now Time at 0 with a toggle button in the OFF position, switch it ON and OFF once while recording, when I play back from the start of the song the button starts in the ON position, even though it should be OFF.  Faders and Knobs exhibit this as well.


4) Automation that is visually depicted in the UI as being recorded while recording disappears after recording stops, and does not play back.  By visually depicted, I mean that I see a curve being written while I'm recording.  I've only seen this happen a couple times.

Mystic38


automation can only be on one track for a soft synth.. in the vst options, or later in the vst property pages you can change which track you see automation on... so if you dont see vst automation parameters on the vst audio track, you likely have the midi track selected.

Thanks, I'll check that out.  I had the option to record automation to the vst audio track selected and don't see it recorded there, but I haven't looked at the midi track to see if it's there instead.  Will post an update once I try it.


Any thoughts about the other issues?  As I think about #3, I'm not sure how Sonar could know the starting positions without polling all automatible parameters and recording their values at the start of the song.  I'm pretty sure it doesn't do that.  I've looked at automation snapshots but they don't seem to do anything for me.  I'd expect to see a node point on the automation line where I take the snapshot but do not.  Then again, I haven't seen a full explanation of the feature yet so I'm sorta guessing on how it works.

FastBikerBoy


Reference the display problem....You may also have "Display Ghosted data" unchecked in the Track View menu View--->Display---->  selection. If that is unchecked and automation lanes are hidden you won't see it.

For #3 uncheck the "Zero Controllers when Play Stops" option in Prefs-->Project--->MIDI--->Other options.  That should fix that. If you have it checked Sonar will send a zero cc message to all controllers on a synth.

HTH

Thanks for the suggestions!  Unfortunately neither fixed the issues.  


"Display Ghosted data" is checked.  Automation Lanes do not appear for the automation recorded on a track created from a track template or from the Browser if I drag the soft synth over to a new track and have the "Ask this Every Time" option unchecked in the Insert Soft Synth Options dialog.  I tried Mystic38's suggestion too, and the automation isn't being written in the midi tracks either.  


I just noticed that after recording, the edit filter for the vst audio track changes from "Clips" to the name of the last parameter I automated.  But the vst audio track doesn't display the automation curve, and showing the automation lanes for the track only results in the track Volume lane appearing.  And the dropdown options for the edit filter on the track do not contain the VST whose automation was recorded.  So as far as I can see there is no way to show the automation that was recorded when the tracks are created this way?  Is this working for you guys?

The "Zero Controllers when Play Stops" didn't help.  I'm not sure my original explanation was very clear?  At now time 0, I have a button in my VST that is turned OFF.  I start recording, and at measure 2 I turn that button ON.  The automation event is drawn with a short solid line at measure 2 showing the parameter at the ON level.  I stop recording.  The dashed automation line that runs from now time 0 to the start of measure 2 is at the same level as the ON level, so now when I start playback from the beginning of the song, the button in my VST is ON, even though it was OFF when I recorded.  It's that beginning dashed automation line that is incorrect.  It should start at the OFF level to match the initial state of the VST button.

I'm recording in Touch mode.  Overwrite works as I would expect, for the most part, though instead of an immediate transition from OFF to ON with a short horizontal line, I get a sloped line from the OFF position at the start of the song to the point where I turned the button ON.  It's interesting that while  I record the automation it's drawn as a short horizontal line at the moment I turn the button ON, but when recording stops it's redrawn as a sloped line from the beginning of the song.  I suspect automation snapshots are the way to go, but I can't seem to make them do anything?  I adjust the parameter to the value I want, set the Now Time where I want it, and in the automation lane I right click the automation parameter slider and select Automation Snapshot but no node is drawn to reflect the snapshot was taken.

Good tip on the using the Synth Rack to set the automation track.  It wasn't set to anything, so I selected the vst audio track and the automation shows up!  Thank you! What's apparently happening is the track template doesn't get saved with the synth's automation target so you have to set it after inserting the track from a template.

Hi Scott - that's a good tip, thanks!  Sometimes there aren't enough nodes to make it match how it is drawn during recording (which is basically a Jump for buttons) but I can get close and can always add nodes where I need to.

I am finding that recording Rapture's automation works really well in Touch mode for me.  If I try recording with it in Overwrite mode it makes 1300+ automation curves, which is obviously not ideal, heh.  Another VST I use a fair amount is Native Instruments B4II, and that one seems to have some flaky behavior when recording automation in Touch mode.  It works most of the time, but every now and then the automation events don't get recorded.

Do you know how automation snapshots work?  From reading the manual it looks like you adjust the Now Time to where you want the snapshot, set your parameters how you want, then right click the parameter and select Automation Snapshot.  At that point you're supposed to see an indicator that a snapshot is recorded.  But I don't, and whatever automation value was previously recorded at that Now Time remains.

yup all those problems here as well... 
what you need to do for the 127+ parameters being written is open the soft synth, click on the "W" button in the top right (it will turn red), then right-click on the "W" button and choose "Automation write enable parameter" - oddly enough the only option, then selectively click all the ones you want to be able to write.  Start at the top and hold shift + down-arrow (page down doesn't work, oddly enough) and scroll ALL THE WAY to the bottom of the list.  Hit the space bar, which will uncheck ALL the parameters. Then (tired yet?????) go through the list and enable all the parameters you will be recording.  WHEW!!!

garrigus


Automation snapshots won't update existing automation. If you need to change a node at a certain location, you can either click/drag it or right-click it, choose Properties and type in a precise value.

Scott

Even in a new song with no automation previously recorded, snapshots don't do anything.  Not sure why.  Do I have the steps right?

Ok, got the automation snapshot working!  I was mistaken when I said "new song".  I was using a song template I had created for B4II.  It must have contained some previous automation.

With a new song using the Normal template, I can create automation snapshots just fine.  And they work perfectly with Rapture.  When I select a patch in Rapture, then create the automation snapshot, all the parameter values in Rapture are recorded in the snapshot correctly.  

That's not the case with B4II.  After selecting a patch in B4II and creating a snapshot, the parameter values are recorded at the middle position.  So if Upper Vibrato is set to OFF in a patch, it gets recorded by Sonar in the middle which causes it to turn ON.  But if I adjust each parameter in the B4 II UI before I create the snapshot, the values get recorded properly.  Looks like a quirk of B4 II, and since it's been discontinued I'll learn to work around it.

Thanks for everyone's help!