ChuckC
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Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
Hey guys, I do mostly audio recording and have never messed with loops, samples etc. I record my band, other bands etc. mostly guitar, bass, vocals, & drums (I track the midi info from an actual drummer on my Roland V kit & send through either session or easy drummer). I have a recording where the whole band played & I have separate scratch tracks for 2 guitar parts, a bass guitar track, & a vocal recorded from my PA board. Generally I track a band this way, and aim to get a solid drum track down (recording only the midi performance of the drums) and scratch for everything else which we re-track later. We went to go back and start that process and realized the drummer slowed down a bit going into each verse & it steps back up in the pre-choruses. It's not horrible but enough that it will bother me. I know we could go back and re-track it but I also know there is a way to correct these timing fluctuations with audio snap... I am a total newb when it comes to setting up the transient markers etc. so I need you to know that when you give any advice you have to offer. In addition, because I didn't not use the internal metronome I never moved the tempo for the project from the default 120 bpm, which the song is not in so I don't know how that may effect this process either. Thanks in advance for any hints, tips, and techniques fellas.
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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Bill Jackson [Cakewalk]
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/16 17:38:15
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So, the whole band slows down together, right? If so, this should do the job: - Save a copy of your project with a new name so you have a backup of the original... just in case.
- You'll need to edit the tempo map of an existing audio track... Preferably a percussion track. Look for one with clear "hits" that occur right on the beat, through as much of the song as possible. If there are multiple clips on the track you choose, bounce to a new one using the "Bounce to Tracks" command, and use that new track. (You can delete this new track when you're done, if you want). Another excellent way to get a clean percussive audio guide of the tempo would be to record yourself clapping quarter notes along with the track.
- Edit the tempo map by opening the AudioSnap palette (Type the A key). Select the clip you're using and click the "Edit Clip Map" button on the palette.
- You'll see a bunch of beat markers at the top of the clip. CTRL+Drag them to the appropriate locations . So, what you hear/see as beat one measure 4 should have the "4:1" mark mapped to it. Do this through the whole track. (Holding the CTRL key while making your changes will make upcoming markers "adapt," saving you work as you scroll through)
- With the clip still selected, push the "Set Project From Clip" button (for best results use the "Beat" setting). Doing this won't change the content at all. It will only adjust the project tempo map to match what you just set up on that clip. (This will, however, affect MIDI, so "Lock" all of your MIDI clips before doing this.)
- At this point you need to get the project to follow the tempo changes. Do this by enabling the "Clip Follows Project" button. Make sure "Auto-stretch" mode is selected.
- Go to the tempo view, delete all but the first tempo change. Set that tempo change to 120. This will make the whole project play at 120. If you want some tempo variations, insert new tempos manually or draw them into the tempo view. (Note: you will want MIDI data to be impacted by this change, so it stays in sync with your audio... so "unlock" the MIDI clips before performing this step)
- When you're done, select everything and bounce to clips (it'll sound better after bouncing, as it will use "Radius" stretching, rather than the real-time alternative).
I made a video that goes through the steps: http://screencast.com/t/xhfVsslPn20h - It's a highly "abridged" version of what you will do - but should help. Let us know how your results are, or if you have questions, etc. **Reformatted for clarity
post edited by Bill Jackson [Cakewalk] - 2012/10/16 19:47:06
Bill Jackson Product Manager Cakewalk
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ChuckC
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/16 18:35:37
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Thanks Bill, I will try this later tonight (hopefully... if I get the time to) Yes the whole band slows down together. So when I am done I select all tracks or Clips? and then bounce to clips right? Thanks again.
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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digi2ns
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/16 19:37:04
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hey Bill, Was there audio or just visual on the video?
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Bill Jackson [Cakewalk]
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/16 19:42:36
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ChuckC Thanks Bill, I will try this later tonight (hopefully... if I get the time to) Yes the whole band slows down together. So when I am done I select all tracks or Clips? and then bounce to clips right? Thanks again. Yes. Just Edit > Select > All. Then bounce to clips. Digi: no audio in that video. Just a screen cap.
Bill Jackson Product Manager Cakewalk
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dburns
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/17 01:26:13
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Thanks a bunch, Bill! Just what I needed too!
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/17 02:28:48
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There is video on my youtube page on how to extract a tempo map. That is here In my experience it is very important to trim and bounce clips before using audiosnap. Doing that will greatly reduce your chances of seeing the dreaded "Tempo out of range" message, especially on live material with studio chit chat and other noise at the front of clips. HTH
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ChuckC
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/17 08:09:06
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Well in this case for me Karl... all the other tracks will later be overdubbed anyway, I just need to get the drum track straightened out first.
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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ChuckC
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/17 22:55:14
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Bill this seems to be effecting everything OTHER THAN my midi drum tracks ...? That's the one thing I really need straightened out here.
post edited by ChuckC - 2012/10/18 01:05:00
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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ChuckC
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/18 01:12:34
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Ok then.... Sorry it's just the midi tracks that are effected by this method? Is that right?
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/18 01:54:07
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ChuckC Bill this seems to be effecting everything OTHER THAN my midi drum tracks ...? That's the one thing I really need straightened out here. Why would you need AUDIO Snap to correct MIDI-tracks?
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/18 03:58:31
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Hi Chuck I'm a little confused on what you are trying to do. Audiosnap will have no affect on MIDI tracks, other than if you extract tempo and "set project from clip" from an audio track using it. In that case the MIDI tracks will follow the extracted tempo. That's what I use it for a lot. Taking a band performance and extracting the tempo map. I don't do much quantizing with it. Setting project tempo to clip won't change the original audio timing at all it just allows tempo based effects such as delay and MIDI tracks to lock to the existing "as played" tempo.
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ChuckC
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/18 07:27:34
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Karl & Kalle! Ahhh see this is what I mean by I am a NEWB! I don't even know which tool it is that I need to use to correct my problem! THANK YOU gentlemen! I played with audio snap for 3 hours last night.... ultimately found that all I can now do is speed up & Slow down my off time midi drum track with it... but couldn't correct it. What is the proper way to go about correcting some minor timing issues? and can I get the rest of the project to follow this correction or not?
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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Truckermusic
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/18 08:16:12
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Chuck Brandon and Seth did a webniar on "larger than life Drums" where they did audio snap work to a drum track. They have a lot of helpful hints in there that are worth the watch. You may not want to watch the "whole" vid cause of the length but it could not hurt. Also Groove three had a couple of "Sonar X1" tutorials on there that touched on audio snap which help some as well...... But the real key is kind of the same thing of mixing / editing......"it's not what you keep but what you lose" that is important........speaking of course to transient markers..... in other words start with a note value large enough to get the job done with out disturbing the small stuff inbetween to cause any stiffness......so if you set your audio transients to say 1/4 notes because you can live with (provide a human feel) the inbetween material then only look for and adjust 1/4 notes.....then delete all other transient markers... If you need to go down to 1/8 notes then do so........but try to stay at a value you can live with...... when done......."Bounce to clip" to get the best render..... Just my 2 cents Brother Clifford
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/18 09:23:23
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For correcting MIDI timing Quantizing is probably your best bet. Select the clip(s) and then select Process--->Quantize. That will open up the settings window where you can set required resolution etc. As the settings are material dependent the best thing to do is have a play around with the settings. If you leave Strength and Window at 100% you'll get a very mechanical result though. I'd suggest starting with strength around 70% and window around 75% but that's just a starting point. Try it if you don't like the result just undo it adjust and have another go. Playing around with those figures will give you an idea on what works for you. The "Strength" setting just determines how well Sonar corrects the problem so 100% corrects an out of place note exactly - which probably isn't the best setting unless you want robodrummer. The Window setting determines how far from the grid a note has to be for Sonar to correct it. 100% corrects everything 50% and it only gets those halfway or less between grid points. HTH
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Bill Jackson [Cakewalk]
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/18 12:42:38
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ChuckC Karl & Kalle! Ahhh see this is what I mean by I am a NEWB! I don't even know which tool it is that I need to use to correct my problem! THANK YOU gentlemen! I played with audio snap for 3 hours last night.... ultimately found that all I can now do is speed up & Slow down my off time midi drum track with it... but couldn't correct it. What is the proper way to go about correcting some minor timing issues? and can I get the rest of the project to follow this correction or not? I still think the steps I listed will accomplish the goal. Looks like it just didn't work. If you could speed up and slow down your MIDI drum track by changing the tempo, but audio tracks didn't change... that means Step 6 (in my list above) was either skipped, didn't apply, or you didn't select all before doing it. Try it again from your project backup (but back it again). I'd like to try it on your project myself. If you could PM me with a dropbox link, or something, with a cwb file, I could see what you've got and provide better help.
Bill Jackson Product Manager Cakewalk
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stevec
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/18 13:54:44
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Bill, if I'm understanding correctly (questionable), wouldn't it be best if Chuck bounced his drum synth track(s) to audio and used that to set the project's tempo map? Then, force the other audio tracks to follow that new tempo map, delete all the intermediate tempo changes so the tracks are following a steady tempo, and lastly have the drum MIDI tracks follow that as well?
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Bill Jackson [Cakewalk]
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/18 17:30:27
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stevec Bill, if I'm understanding correctly (questionable), wouldn't it be best if Chuck bounced his drum synth track(s) to audio and used that to set the project's tempo map? Then, force the other audio tracks to follow that new tempo map, delete all the intermediate tempo changes so the tracks are following a steady tempo, and lastly have the drum MIDI tracks follow that as well? That sounds right.
Bill Jackson Product Manager Cakewalk
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ChuckC
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Re:Anyone wanna help a guy who's never used audio snap before?
2012/10/18 17:54:49
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Bill I have a session/band rehearsal tonight... I will try to get it uploaded afterwards. As far as starting over.... Yeah, I spent 2 hours setting the transient markers for the stick click track I made last night.... I am not likely to do that again to find out it didn't work a 2nd time. I'd rather have the guys come back in and retrack the whole thing to a click (which we may do tonight anyway. I am not a big fan of using technology as a crutch to replace talented performances or lack thereof. I hate the sound of mechanized drums & despise autotune for effects with all that I am. =)
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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