Reverb Sends - Any tips?

As an aside, I'm curious if there is a way to control the precise order in which effects and sends occur? In other words, can we allow a couple effects to happen before a send, and then a couple more effects after the send? My guess is we'd need multiple buses to do that.

Tripecac


I currently have a reverb bus (and master bus) in each of my projects. The reverb bus has a hall or room reverb effect, and outputs to the master bus. The master bus is dry, and outputs to my sound card.

I set the "output" of each audio/synth track on which I want the reverb to the reverb bus. This is a simple way to share the reverb, but it means I can't change the reverb wet/dry amount for each track. For tracks where I want more (or less) reverb, I end up adding a different reverb instance, and then setting the track's output to the master bus. This results in multiple instances of the same reverb plugin, which isn't really ideal.

If I instead get my tracks to use a "send" to the reverb bus and set the "output" to the master bus, I can control the "wet" amount of reverb for each track. The problem I'm having is finding out how to balance the wet and dry amounts easily.

Sends are added on top of the normal output, right? So, although I can easily adjust the wet amount, the dry amount is fixed relative to the volume of the track. Do I therefore need to create a second send (to the master bus), and then set the output to nothing?

In other words, does each track need the following routing setup in order to have full wet/dry control over the reverb?

1) output -> nothing
2) send 1 -> reverb bus ("wet" amount)
3) send 2 -> master bus ("dry" amount)

Is that how you do it? Is there an easier, or more space-efficient way to accomplish the same thing, ideally one where as you increase the "wet", the dry amount automatically decreases?

Tripecac


I thought post meant that the signal was sent to the send after the faders (and insert effects). So, the send's input level would be directly related to the track's volume level; if you set the track's volume to 0, the send would not get any input either, so you'd have neither wet nor dry, just silence.

I thought pre meant that the signal branched before the faders and effects. The send's input would be taken directly from the "raw" audio (synth output or wav file) and would be unaffected by track volume or insert effects. If you set the volume to 0, the send would still get the full signal, and so the track would be completely "wet" in terms of reverb (but with none of the insert effects).

Is this incorrect?

As an aside, I'm curious if there is a way to control the precise order in which effects and sends occur? In other words, can we allow a couple effects to happen before a send, and then a couple more effects after the send? My guess is we'd need multiple buses to do that.

Tripecac


How can you have 100% wet with a post-fader send?

Let's say you have a reverb on a track, and at the end of the song you want the main audio to fade to 0, but the reverb to remain, so that you can *only* hear the reverb. With a pre-fader send, you would simply lower the track volume to 0 but keep the send level the same. With a post-fader send, it seems impossible.

Tripecac

ok I may have this wrong but you want to turn the volume of a track all the way down while the total wet signal of that effect still plays. and you want all the other effects in that track to be included? Is this right? What exactly do you want to accomplish?

I think what I'm trying to figure out is how to meet these requirements:

1) full wet/dry range - This means I need to be able to go from 100% dry to 100% wet (with no dry signal). So if, for example, I have a "pan left" effect, and my track is panned right, I should be able to pan from all the way left to all the way right without changing the track's actual pan. Make sense? In other words, I want to be able to reduce the dry output to 0% without also reducing the wet output to 0%. This doesn't seem possible with a standard "post fader" send, since if the track's output volume is 0, the input to the send is also 0, and that's not what I want.

2) insert effects included in send - This is the standard "post" send behavior. If I have an echo insert effect and a send to a reverb, I want to hear the echoes reverbed too, not just the raw signal. I think this one's pretty easy to understand, and isn't hard to accomplish by itself.

The Triton has "wet/dry" knobs for its "master" effects (which come after the insert effects). So you can set a master reverb to 0%/100%, 50/50, 70/30, 100/0 etc. The more wet, the less dry. I'm accustomed to thinking of effects like that.

However, I realize that that's not how "real" send effects usually work, since with real sends, the wet and dry outputs are handled independently; increasing the "wet" amount (the send) does not automatically decrease the dry amount, and increasing the dry amount does not automatically decrease the wet amount, and, in the case of a post-fader send, increasing the dry actually increases the wet along with it.

Just turn off the post in the send. all the effects in that track will be sent to the bus as well.

I think this is what might be confusing me. In Sonar, do both "post" and "pre" sends include insert effects? Does "pre-fader" mean "pre-volume-fader" and not "pre-insert-effects-and-volume-fader"?

post: audio -> insert effects -> volume -> [branch to send] -> output

pre-insert-effects-and-volume-fader: audio -> [branch to send] -> insert effects -> volume -> output

pre-volume-fader: audio -> insert effects -> [branch to send] -> volume -> output

If Sonar's pre is a "pre-volume-fader", then it seems like I can get both requirements met simply by using a "pre" send. And if that's the case, I think I have been misunderstanding the term "pre" all this time!

2) Not in my experience. Assuming you meant 50 + 50 then there should be no difference except for volume