Skipping mix on Bounce to Tracks

http://stabilitynetwork.blob.core.windows.net/sn-blob/skippy.mp3

Ok... here's an example. The skippiness was added when I tried to normalize the mix. I was playing the mix at the same time I tried to normalize (Alt>P>N). The result was this skippy track. It's not always how I end up with a skippy track, but it was in this case. Does it have to do with processor load? Not sure.

Thanks for the nice words, John. I don't use the different interfaces at the same time. I use the Line 6 when I'm moving around mixing. I carry it in my AlphaTrack bag case in the little pocket. I mentioned both to say that I had tried to rule out drivers by seeing the problem on 2 different devices. I haven't tried turning off 64 bit audio engine.

I was kinda thinking it might have more to do with background threads in Windows 8. I know that there is some tricky work for the new app model (metro or whatever) where when the apps fall to a back ground thread their behavior changes. I am wondering if this is in play.

Whenever I look at it, it works fine. It's only when I'm multi-tasking that I get the goofy behavior.

I heard once of a guy who wrote a keyboard driver for his boss that only threw in random keys that were near the keys typed when his typing speed went faster than a given keys per minute. I thought this was hysterical. When he slowed down, the problem went away, but when he typed quickly it would screw up. Ha ha. What a great April Fools.

This problem seems kinda like that. Whenever I watch it, no problem. When I get busy and am not paying attention... bang.

I think the best most repeatable test is to Normalize a track during playback... Select a clip, start playback, normalize... any issues?

I'll try repeating using this and with x64 processing on and off.

I have only 24 bit 88.2 audio in the project.

http://stabilitynetwork.blob.core.windows.net/sn-blob/base8.htm
Here are non messed up versions of the songs. BTW, if you hear things in my mixes you would do differently, feel free to tell me. I'm always open to suggestions.

I don't think many people have got on the Win 8 train yet.

Thanks for the responses. It's definitely not the Hard Drive. Everything is fine except this occasional annomaly. As long as the skipping is obvious and severe as in the example I posted above, it's easy to restart and rebounce leaving the focus on Sonar while I bounce to be safe.

Interestingly, I find myself listening very critically to mixes wondering if a note picked early might actually be a skip. They have never proved to be when I looked closer. It was always an out of time note played by the performer.

What I'm saying is that when I get the skipping it is obvious and severe, otherwise non-existent. It's not like I'm getting grades of the problem that get so subtle I might miss it on listening. It's either skipping or it's not.

The first time I saw it was on a straight bounce to tracks where I was bouncing 14 or so audio tracks and some busses down to a stereo track.

Subsequently, I have not had a lot of repeats at this stage, but I have seen (and repeated it) by playing a track and while the track is playing, normalizing the same clip I'm playing (the clip is probably solo'd at the time too). The clip would be routed direct to the audio outs... not to a bus. Flipping the 64 bit processing switch didn't help.

Not sure what it is yet. I posted a problem ticket with Sonar, but I'm not sure how easily they will be able to repeat it.
 
As a re-cap, I have experienced it identically using two different audio interfaces Line 6 GX (small one channel thing for travelling) and m-audio fast track ultra. In both cases, Asio driver mode. (I was not using both interfaces at the same time).

Bit>

More on the drives, just in case I have Enable Write Caching and Turn off Windows write cache buffer flushing checked on the internal drive. Perhaps related? I'll try replicating the problem with different settings.

First of all, I LOVE your re-interpretation of that tune.  Very kewl concept.

I only have had one time where s certain part was out of whack - but it was inadvertently my own step sequencing that caused it for me.

Sorry I cannot give you any help in figuring this out.

On a side note - if you ever need or want any keyboard tracks for any remakes just give me the word, and I would cheerfully donate my time to help you.  Just send a private message and we can go from there.

Question - do you experience the same problem if you just play back one track at a time?  Also, try exporting each track separately, then playing them using Windows Media Player, one at a time, to see if the problems show up that way.  And lastly, try exporting each track again separately, then firing up a new project and importing each track back in - sort of a fresh reload of the same previously recorded material.  Then play within Sonar and see if that did anything different.

I am just tossing ideas out to see if any behavioral changes can be observed, as that may lead to a better understanding as to why this is occurring.  

Bob Bone

Bristol_Jonesey >
I'm normalizing to improve the signal to noise ratio when burned to CD (from CD to stereo). That's all. I know you're against it. I have the concrete limiter before it, but if it doesn't use every available bit, I go ahead and normalize before exporting to 16 bit. Maybe just a foolish thing to do.

So, I recognize I was asking for trouble. I'm haven't normally done it, but if it's an option, it should work as expected, I think. But it's no big deal. The first time it happened, I thought it happened on a bounce to tracks but I haven't been able to replicate that over some time now. Also, I don't know if I might have been accidentally playing the project when executing bounce to tracks (not even sure if this is possible).

At this point, I was only replicating because I was on to a bug. Thought it a hole that could be plugged if they get available bandwidth. Perhaps not necessary. More just exploring it. I found it happened to me > I looked into why > I created this thread as I studied it.

I know you think it's never necessary to normalize, but normalizing can be part of gain staging, can't it? Especially if I record at the super low levels people mention, gain staging helps get the feed into your compressors and fx to be reasonable so your dials for setting compression makes sense, right? When I record with reasonable levels, which is most of the time, I don't normalize the tracks themselves before bouncing, but I might normalize the final mix before exporting, assuming the concrete limiter never had to limit anything.

Bob Bone>
The original recordings are fine. I only encountered this on a bounced track. At first, it appeared to have happened on a 'bounce to tracks' but since I have only been able to repeat it reliably using normalize while concurrently playing the clip. I'm totally into trying to collaborate... I'll PM.

Everyone > Thanks for the help. I totally don't want to burn your time unnecessarily and appreciate the time you've given. This is just an oddity and I'm always interested in running down oddities like this just to be helpful to Cakewalk if I can be. This is not a problem for me since I've had an easy time avoiding the problem.

I was talking about the signal to noise ratio on the equipment you use to  play back the CD.

gswitz


I was talking about the signal to noise ratio on the equipment you use to  play back the CD.

My bad. I did not read carefully enough.
I do "mastering" inside the project, and exporting the final mix I use Ozone to get the desired levels.
I hardly ever need normalizing, but I think it's quite an "acceptable" method at places, as it really doesn't do any harm, if you know what/why you're using it for.

Cakewalk refused my bug report on the grounds that normalizing while listening is a bone stupid thing to do and I should know better.

Haha.

:-)

Not exactly their words to me, but probably what they said to each other.