Take Lanes: How Would You Fix Comping?

Just out of curiousity, what would you guys do to fix layers for take comping? How would the perfect system work? What would you need to be able to do? How would it be done?

Example here's my list, start with existing take lanes so...

1. There's a "promote" tool that allows me to highlight the bits I want to keep, automatically muting all other lanes in the same tame region I just highlighted. This way, I can create a comp with a single tool in a single fast motion. If you're thinking of how this works, think of the opposite of the mute tool (in fact, it would be a kind of "solo" tool). Only one take can ever be promoted in a given track at a given time.
2. There's an "audtion" mode where I can select a region, loop it, and Sonar will automatically cycle through each take in order allowing me to hear them in context to quickly find the best bits. Example, play take 1, hit loop point, play take 2, hit loop point, play take 3, etc.
3. When it comes to audio: only one take lane can ever be heard on playback. Until I promote other takes, the most recent take should default to "entirely promoted." 
4. When recording audio, all other takes are automatically muted. This shouldn't even be a setting when recording audio, though it has it's uses for MIDI controller/automation data. For MIDI, I should have the option of playing all takes or the most recent (don't hide this setting though).
5. I should be able to move take lanes around as needed like they were audio tracks.
6. I should be able to zoom in and out like they're audio tracks.
7. The waveform shown up top and on the track will represent the comp'd tracks from the different lines, with vertical lines to indicate where edits are (I think this is what Sonar already does).
8. I should be able to create, delete, mute, solo and record into layers like they're audio tracks. Recording into a lane would only be allowed if it were empty. Otherwise, the user would have to either manually add a new lane to record into it, or just begin recording again.

What do you guys think? What would you do if you could tell the bakers how to fix Take Layers?

Funkybot


Just out of curiousity, what would you guys do to fix layers for take comping? How would the perfect system work? What would you need to be able to do? How would it be done?

Example here's my list, start with existing take lanes so...

1. There's a "promote" tool that allows me to highlight the bits I want to keep, automatically muting all other lanes in the same tame region I just highlighted. This way, I can create a comp with a single tool in a single fast motion. If you're thinking of how this works, think of the opposite of the mute tool (in fact, it would be a kind of "solo" tool). Only one take can ever be promoted in a given track at a given time.
2. There's an "audtion" mode where I can select a region, loop it, and Sonar will automatically cycle through each take in order allowing me to hear them in context to quickly find the best bits. Example, play take 1, hit loop point, play take 2, hit loop point, play take 3, etc.
3. When it comes to audio: only one take lane can ever be heard on playback. Until I promote other takes, the most recent take should default to "entirely promoted." 
4. When recording audio, all other takes are automatically muted. This shouldn't even be a setting when recording audio, though it has it's uses for MIDI controller/automation data. For MIDI, I should have the option of playing all takes or the most recent (don't hide this setting though).
5. I should be able to move take lanes around as needed like they were audio tracks.
6. I should be able to zoom in and out like they're audio tracks.
7. The waveform shown up top and on the track will represent the comp'd tracks from the different lines, with vertical lines to indicate where edits are (I think this is what Sonar already does).
8. I should be able to create, delete, mute, solo and record into layers like they're audio tracks. Recording into a lane would only be allowed if it were empty. Otherwise, the user would have to either manually add a new lane to record into it, or just begin recording again.

What do you guys think? What would you do if you could tell the bakers how to fix Take Layers?

Sorry if I'm being dumb and misunderstanding, but isn't your first point already available as Isolating (clip soloing)?
 
I think some of your other points are already possible, will look later when I'm at my DAW.

Keep in mind: I know you can comp takes using lanes, the point of my suggestions is to make comping takes using lanes fast and intuitive. 

If someone has better ideas, I'd like to hear them.

Number one already works that way you just use the mute/solo tool.

That's over complicated. What they need to do is just fix the design flaw (yes design FLAW) that only allows you to solo one lane at a time. They also need an option to hide specific lanes. However I said this in the other thread and it would be kind of like "promoting" in your idea.

Make it so you can select a lane and it will pop into the main track (which is now just empty space) where you can edit it. Also allow it so you can send multiple takes to that empty track space for comping. However still allow all the stuff you can do in lanes to stay the same/become more refined.

Yeah. I have to keep a little notebook next to my DAW for all the rifling through multiple menus, hotkeys, clicks, hokey pokeys and voodoo curses needed to perform basic functions. But I guess when you have as many features as Sonar does you have to get creative in how to isolate all the procedures.

However anyone who likes that comping idea please be extremely vocal to the Bakers about it. It should have been made that way in the first place. Cheers.

All good stuff here.
I will give this method a go, it seems straight forward enough.
Having a list next to the keyboard is a good way to learn and memorise the commands.
I dont use my studio everyday, not even every week, thats my problem with learning all these tools.
By the way, is there a hotkey for bypassing the built-in 'Blue screen of death' feature?
As entertaining as it may be to watch my pc reboot after simply pressing the Record button, i would like to get through a session without a crash.
I believe this a new feature built in to X2, as ive never had it before.
Ive had Cakewalk since version 3.

Funkybot


Just out of curiousity, what would you guys do to fix layers for take comping? How would the perfect system work? What would you need to be able to do? How would it be done?

Example here's my list, start with existing take lanes so...

1. There's a "promote" tool that allows me to highlight the bits I want to keep, automatically muting all other lanes in the same tame region I just highlighted. This way, I can create a comp with a single tool in a single fast motion. If you're thinking of how this works, think of the opposite of the mute tool (in fact, it would be a kind of "solo" tool). Only one take can ever be promoted in a given track at a given time.

This already exists. Hold down the ctrl key while sweep selecting with the mute tool.

2. There's an "audtion" mode where I can select a region, loop it, and Sonar will automatically cycle through each take in order allowing me to hear them in context to quickly find the best bits. Example, play take 1, hit loop point, play take 2, hit loop point, play take 3, etc.

This sort of exists although you do need to use the solo button manually. Select region - solo take - press shift + spacebar - change solo press shift + spacebar etc. etc.

3. When it comes to audio: only one take lane can ever be heard on playback. Until I promote other takes, the most recent take should default to "entirely promoted." 

Like that idea

4. When recording audio, all other takes are automatically muted. This shouldn't even be a setting when recording audio, though it has it's uses for MIDI controller/automation data. For MIDI, I should have the option of playing all takes or the most recent (don't hide this setting though).

Not sure I'm understanding this but I definitely don't want to hear previous takes while recording.

5. I should be able to move take lanes around as needed like they were audio tracks.

This can be done using cut & paste between tracks or click dragging within the same track.

6. I should be able to zoom in and out like they're audio tracks.

Not sure I'm following this one either, you already can can't you? Click dragging vertical height, Zoom tool, fast zoom via the ruler, alt + mouse wheel etc etc.-I would like to see the height restrictions lifted though.

7. The waveform shown up top and on the track will represent the comp'd tracks from the different lines, with vertical lines to indicate where edits are (I think this is what Sonar already does).

This doesn't happen but would be a nice feature

8. I should be able to create, delete, mute, solo and record into layers like they're audio tracks. Recording into a lane would only be allowed if it were empty. Otherwise, the user would have to either manually add a new lane to record into it, or just begin recording again.

Unless I'm mis-understanding this can already be done as well can't it?

What do you guys think? What would you do if you could tell the bakers how to fix Take Layers?

I'd like to see a single button that maximises all takes while minimising the track and also the take lane buttons quick groupable. Those two alone would speed up my workflow considerably.

Beepster


hmm... You shouldn't be getting BSODs like that. That's a hardware issue. I've NEVER had one (touch wood) and my system is slightly less fancy than yours. However you don't list what kind of hard drives you have. For mechanical drives your drive speed should be 7200rpm (I have two Caviar Black's and they're great).

Other than that check for driver updates for all your hardware and check out the Cakewalk optimization guide. If you are still having problems put in a support ticket with Cakewalk and give them a call. The reason I say do both is because in the email you can list all your specs and problems so the tech has it in front of them when you call (reference the support ticket number when you call) and then he can give you some ideas and explain stuff based on that. They also likely send you an email for reference (if not ask that they do because it's easy to forget all the technobabble).

Cheers.

Thanks #beepster 
I built this computer a few weeks ago afte having terrible probs with x2 and my frontier Alphatrack.
 Producer 8.5 and X1 were ok.
Im still getting probs.
I will do what you suggested.
Thanks

Great thread!     My personal list:
 
1) Track (or Automation) Lane Auto-Zoom so I can clearly see that lane's data without having to expand all of them (and the functionality already exists for tracks).
 
2) Multi-Lane solo (a variation of solo/exclusive solo).
 
3) The ability to promote the currently isolated regions to a new Track Lane (automated bounce to lane).
 
4) When Track Lanes are collapsed, the promoted Track Lane's clips would always display on top (with the option to display *only* that lane's clips).
 
5) Move both Lane buttons so they're accessible from a minimized track.   Everything above starts here.   
 

Beepster


No problem, wildman and welcome to the forum. I would also highly recommend picking up a copy of X1 Power by Scott Garrigus or snagging the new one X2 Power when it comes out. It is crammed with all the little tricks and procedures needed to navigate Sonar effectively. That's where most entries in my notebook come from. It has helped me immensely. I've only been working with Sonar for 6 months  (and although I've done a little bit of DAW stuff before I knew next to nothing before buying X1) and now and can do most pretty much everything I need to from start to finish. Without that book and the forum I'd probably be boned.

Hi 
I tried updating all drivers for the components of my pc tonight.
I tried remixing a couple of projects to see if I experienced any problems.
No Problems at all.
Maybe that was it!


Im pretty impressed that your so new to this.
Ive been tinkering with cakewalk since version 3, and I still scratch the surface.
I printed out a complete shortcut list from the Bakery. All  8 pages.

FBB taught me the cnt mute trick & I love it!!! (the mute/overlap tool is broke in x2. I used to use that but this does about the same thing!) Once you figure them out, I like take lanes better. I never got along with layers.

I agree, knowing that option exists for Lanes makes working with takes a breeze. 

Though, I gotta say: Cakewalk could really do a better job of explaining that feature. It's not intuitive, and all their video tutorials focused on automation lanes rather than comping a take.

Funkybot


I agree, knowing that option exists for Lanes makes working with takes a breeze. 

Though, I gotta say: Cakewalk could really do a better job of explaining that feature. It's not intuitive, and all their video tutorials focused on automation lanes rather than comping a take.

I'm sure I saw a video explaining this, but I may be wrong.   By the time I get the hang of something, it seems to change, and I'm back to square one.  
 
I think it will take me a while to find the optimum workflow, and I'm sure they will be refined over time.
@funkybot, I wasn't referring to you in that post.  You have been perfectly level headed and positive.  Others, less so.