VS700 & X2

I've been interested in VS700 controller(not the audio interface) since its inception, but I've always wondered how much support such a product would receive.  In passing I've seen complaints about X2 & VS700 not playing nicely together.  I would hate to invest $2000 on partially support product.   All thoughts and opinions welcome, just looking for what I can expect if I were to invest in it.   

i have the entire vs system.  at this point, i have to encourage you not to invest.  as a community, the vs700 group feels a little neglected.  when we purchased we figured that cakewalk would cater a little more to us, being that we shelled out fpr such an expensive system.....not the case.  heck ...the fantom synth STILL has not been officially upgraded to 64bit.

the controller is great build quality, but not 100 percent yet.  no control of prochannel, laggy strip displays, etc.

I use the VS-700 with X1 not X2 and can't comment on any differences.

I think the V-Studio is a great package.  There is less support, but I really haven't needed any except for getting the Fantom set up.  I don't know of a comparable package for the price and nothing that will integrate as well, but, that said, there are a LOT of options out there.

I have the Fantom running in 64-bit (I believe).  My comments on Fantom:
1-I thought I would use it a lot more than I do.  It has some good sounds but nothing I can't cover with something else I have.
2-It was a real pain to get running - very confusing and required Sweetwater tech supt
3-The documentation on it is about like on any Roland synth, which means unclear. I love Roland stuff but they have never been good manual-writers.
 
Big quirk with the Fantom:  You can only have one instance running.  Not a problem, but if you have a project open that uses the Fantom, and then open another Fantom project at the same time, Sonar locks up and crashes.  I often load a second project to look at or copy tracks for a current project, and if I forget about the Fantom thing, I am screwed.  Sonar should be smart enough to warn you and let you cancel, or, better yet, just open the project with Fantom grayed out.
 
There are a few quirks to understanding the input/output choices for the V-Studio in Sonar, but it is not that bad once you get someone to show you how they have arranged things.
 
My main complaint is that anytime you power off the V-Studio I/O, you lose all your mic pre settings (trim, compression, phantom, etc.).  Not that big a deal and maybe other manufacturers have the same problem, but it is annoying.  You need to note your settings somewhere (like taking a screen print).
 

Also...Konrad is right about the Fantom I/O choices. It's unnecessarily complicated to get the Fantom working because you have to treat it as hardware I/O...not like a soft synth. But also like Konrad says, once you figure it out you're covered.

As to the 700R settings, I save setting files. For example, I have one that's just for audio-for-video projects, another for doing vocals, etc.


It does seem V-Studio updates lag quite a bit behind the program itself, but I use it in its current state because it does save me time and improve workflow. Then again, I've used it enough so that it's second-nature.

Konradh, Anderton, & FFB, thanks for your input as well.  Seems that my main issue would be that the flagship hardware studio equipment lags behind the flagship software that it's meant to work with.  Very disappointing, but the fact that the current functionality still improves your work flow, might negate that fact, especially considering that without updates for the VS700C you would render it obsolete and lose valuable consumer support, so I gotta think CW has to have it on deck for a serious update soon.  I'm leaning toward the VS700C if only to gain more hands on control of the X2 console.  V700R just got a little interesting when you mention the 64bit update as I would love to get a ARX-01, but I'm about to invest in an RME interface, so I think most of the V700R would go to waste.   

I own the vs system, think of the VS-700C as the hardware translation of Sonar 8.0.

This was the golden age really. This was fast, intuitive and awesome.

Then came 8.5, (also awesome) and X1...

Understand that X1 was nice also. We had some problems with the EQ layout (which don't line up with the labels on the console, still today) but that was not a real problem, just a deception for us who though we got the ultimate in Sonar integration. Other bugs were related to the new software codes and were not vs specific problem for the major part.

Then Prochannel modularity (X1D) introduced a latency on the display when banking through channels/busses, not the end of the world but a general "not again" reaction from users.

Some others bugs/functionnalities were still not adressed since Sonar 8 (like x64 Fatom editor and some others) and we, users, started to feel like an after-thought, a dead weight on Cakewalk shoulders and continued to try to convinced ourselves that we didn't invested that much money on a sinking flagship.

Some of us became less prone to wait and the tension raised on the VS forum, asking more and more for Cake's attention. 

Then came X2. Ouch. If you try to control the Prochannel with the VS-c channel strip, 2-3 moves on the knobs and the C display will freeze and act funky, the snap button freeze with the 2nd press and I successfully freeze Sonar when using a combination of the above while banking through tracks and busses 100% of the time. It's the first time the channel strip/prochannel is that much broken. And, no improvement/feedback on the features we wished since Sonar 8.  Also, if you press the automation button to write one, all, I mean ALL availible parameters will apear on an automation lane, that mean around 25-30 lanes are created just to write a volume automation...

Now, some of the users feel rubbed, so if you took a look on the VS forum, you'll understand why the general tone is somewhat harsh...

THAT being said, Ryan Munnis is very kind and pop on the forum here and there to do what he can to explain what is going on and what they are investigating. I believe that Cakewalk will do what they can to keep the VS afloat but the update will always go in this order (according to what we experienced so far).

New version of Sonar/patch -> some month waiting -> VS-700 update patching what the hardware permit

I would like both beign done and released at the same time but it's not the case right now.

Note that once the Channel strip section/snap setting are fixed, there's still A LOT going on in this surface that goes WAY beyong the Mackie/ Protools functions. A quick look at the manual will show you this.

I would say wait for X2A and make your decision once there.  If you decide to get it even if the support is not yet availible, then watch the used market since there will probably be some VS system on ebay for cheap lol.

Beside all those drawback, the VS combined with the VS-R is still an awesome sound machine that compare favorably to higher priced soltution. Also, controlling the VS-R gain and etc with the faders is very a addictive feature and it's limited direct monitoring functions can be cured by adding the octa-capture for a serious amount of I/O. By the way, I use the Fantom and the ARX-01 x64 on every project and they sound perfect. Patch selection in the Fantom is tedious though and the bit bridged editor sometime screw the automations.

RME is very nice, but so is the complete VS-700 package.

Reading over these posts, I have to say they're really perceptive and accurate. There are some truly helpful people on this forum. 

Anyway, I forgot to mention that the VS-700C is Mackie-compatible. I also use it as a controller for Vegas, Reason, and other Mackie-compatible programs.

I have the complete system, currently I'm running 8.5.3 64 bit and I'm going to drop X1 Expanded in the DAW shortly. The main problems with V 700 C that you want are updates with the new features and plugins in X2. As of X1d and Expanded, stability and control were supposed to be restored. X2 lost some features of control on some functions. I haven't been able to get a total list out of anyone.
The V700C is a complex surface, you can make ACT perameters with it to control things, it can get real complex. What's needed is detailed problem reporting about what it doesn't do in X2. I don't think you'll find a better control surface for Sonar X2, but apparently, right now it's not perfect.

We live in hope of the X2 update... this may be a game changer... but it has been some time.

The 700 set is obviously killer enough for us to maintain patience however particularly for those of us who have had it a while before the 8.5.3 release and can appreciate the game changer that it truly was at that time.

'If' Cake get this thing right again, we once more have a giant slayer.

Cheers.

I own a Roland SI24 as part of the Roland Studio Package II. And what interested me in the VS700 is the handle it has. So you can mix with stereo tracks in surround. Wich is something wich to this date is very innovative and a true Roland idea. (Maybe a Cakewalk idea.... but Roland has had some clever ideas...through the years... ). It hasn't been followed by other manufacturers. It will make mixing in surround with high trackcounts a breeze...

My wife gave me the look when I started about this... U know... She is right. I do have a great setup... But it is still a great kit...

You won't need this information until you have a V-Studio, but some tips:

1.  You can define some of the buttons on the console which is very handy.  I have buttons to open Staff, Lyrics, and Event List views.  (PRV button was already there.)
2.  The scroll wheel is incredibly better than a mouse or cursor key.
3.  Watch out on the Fantom install and do not install ARX editor unless you have a Fantom Expansion card.  Since it is possible to have two interfaces and two Fantoms, the default Fantom installation may try to install two devices.  Be sure you say NO to the second one if you only have one interface.
4.  Related to Fantom installation, you will need to check Preferences because Sonar likes to throw in Fantom and ARX as input devices which will screw you up.  Don't get hung up on this: but if you have issues, just be sure and look at Preferences and uncheck devices that don't make sense.  Also, if some tracks in a project stop working correctly, make sure the in or out has not defaulted to Fantom or ARX.  This is a Sonar bug that doesn't show up for users who only use the PC.

The problems above are only serious if you don't know wwhat to look for and waste hours trying to figure it out.

It only has a pair of stereo outs into Sonar?  So I would have to mix the drums with the built in effects or solo each drum sound & record, to their own tracks in sonar if I want to use my 3rd party stuff? A little bit of a bummer, but at least there's a long winded workaround if needed, haha.....Thanks everyone for the input, I'm sold. 

Yes only one stereo pair but the trick I found is to sample the sounds you want to use and use them with session drummer.

Let me explain:  The ARX-01 are not only static samples, they are models which can be modified in the editor to achieve different variation of the same sample. That you probably already know.

Let's say I want a 22" brass snare drum. Then get that one in the ARX, tweek the parameters until it fits your need (shell depth, tuning, mic placement, compressor, eq, exciter, etc) and then record (render) the result.

Once you have that wave form, export it and then load it in session drummer. Do it for every sound you want and session drummer will play all of them on any separate inputs and process them further in Sonar if you wish.

To achive the same result with a library mean having lots of static gigabytes of samples and trying them one by one. I prefer to customize the ARX, which are second to none sound wise.