clintmartin
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Should I insert a bus to raise levels?
I've got a song that I'm starting to like, but my levels are at -22 db. Is setting up a new stereo bus the best or most transparrent way to raise the levels? It seems that doing this alone raises the volume quite a bit. Another way is to turn up the gain on every track...guess I'm just wondering what you guys do. I realize I have several options, I'm just trying to learn some good habits for the future. One of course would be, to record with a higher level.
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Beepster
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Re:Should I insert a bus to raise levels?
2012/12/06 19:25:24
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Low record level? All tracks are that low? Anyway... can't turn up your Master? Are you going to add any mastering effects? You could get some more oomph there. Someone also mentioned to me at one point inserting blank PC modules and using the input/output knobs to adjust gain. A bus would work too. IDK... more details perhaps?
Also.. hiya, Clint. ;-)
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SuperG
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Re:Should I insert a bus to raise levels?
2012/12/06 19:26:38
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clintmartin
I've got a song that I'm starting to like, but my levels are at -22 db. Is setting up a new stereo bus the best or most transparrent way to raise the levels? It seems that doing this alone raises the volume quite a bit. Another way is to turn up the gain on every track...guess I'm just wondering what you guys do. I realize I have several options, I'm just trying to learn some good habits for the future. One of course would be, to record with a higher level.
Actually, ~20db is a good place to be, RMS-wise. This gives you plenty of headroom in case you need it. Normally, you don't need buses unless you're grouping instruments, but it is always a good idea to have at least a master bus. The master bus is where you will want to adjust the mix loudness. Individual tracks need only be relatively the same loudness (so that fader adjusts start from unity and aren't drastic) and not quite that near clipping. I pretty much use the K-system suggestions for final volume targets, although I always mix tracks at roughly -20db RMS, with an occasional check to ensure I'm not clipping. This keeps the buses from requiring drastic trim too.
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Beepster
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Re:Should I insert a bus to raise levels?
2012/12/06 19:26:53
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And yeah... group select, raise the gain. Is there low rumble/hiss on the tracks? If so R-Mix might be a good option.
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clintmartin
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Re:Should I insert a bus to raise levels?
2012/12/06 19:38:25
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Hi to you Beepster! (I've been liking your tunes on soundcloud by the way) I usually aim for -12 db peak on the master bus so for me I would like to get this song up there with as little color as possible. I'm not quite to the point where I'm mixing or adding compression and/or limiting. I was just thinking a gain stage bus may be a good idea, but it's probably not needed. All tracks are at or below unity and the gains are at zero. I guess I could try my new waves one knob...Hahaha, but that adds compression. I don't want that yet.
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Beepster
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Re:Should I insert a bus to raise levels?
2012/12/06 19:47:52
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I'd say let it ride until you get it where you want and then crank it in a mastering session. But obviously I'm still figuring stuff out myself so maybe ask the dudes in the techniques forum.
And thanks for checking out the tunes. They were fun and got my head wrapped around everything. Now I gotta my shiz together and see if I can get to a semi pro level. Dagnab baby steps ain't cuttin' it no more, yanno?
Cheers, bro.
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clintmartin
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Re:Should I insert a bus to raise levels?
2012/12/06 19:57:22
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Yep, every song I have on soundcloud so far is basically me learning to use Sonar. I've only had it since May and it's my first PC based daw. I'm also getting to a point where I'm getting tired of reading and I'm ready to record a lot. Sonar has so many tools I'm always wondering if I'm making things to hard......This is usually the case!
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jb101
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Re:Should I insert a bus to raise levels?
2012/12/06 19:58:51
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Beepster
Low record level? All tracks are that low? Anyway... can't turn up your Master? Are you going to add any mastering effects? You could get some more oomph there. Someone also mentioned to me at one point inserting blank PC modules and using the input/output knobs to adjust gain. A bus would work too. IDK... more details perhaps?
Also.. hiya, Clint. ;-)
I mentioned using blank PC FXchain modules, but more to gain stage within the PC to prevent overloading individual modules. At the OP, it depends what you are preparing the projects for. Mastering? Then you want to leave plenty of headroom for the mastering engineer. Are you recording at 24 bit or 16? Unlike the analog days, you don't need to record too hot. There are better ways to raise the levels than having to insert a buss. Explain a little more about what you're doing, and we can offer some more accurate advice.
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Beepster
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Re:Should I insert a bus to raise levels?
2012/12/06 20:08:47
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clintmartin
Yep, every song I have on soundcloud so far is basically me learning to use Sonar. I've only had it since May and it's my first PC based daw. I'm also getting to a point where I'm getting tired of reading and I'm ready to record a lot. Sonar has so many tools I'm always wondering if I'm making things to hard......This is usually the case!
I think there comes a point where if you know how to get things into and out of a project you just gotta start making music. There's only so much fiddle faddle and minutiae that one can delve into before you're just wasting time. That's stuff seems to be easier to figure out as you truck along the bumpy road. I'll dig into your SC uploads when I get a chance. The move has been hectic though. So much crap to do. Ugh. Much better environment though. Cheers.
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Beepster
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Re:Should I insert a bus to raise levels?
2012/12/06 20:10:54
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@jb... Ah, yes. I remember the thread now. Still seems like a useful trick for multiple circumstances. Man... I can't wait to get set back up again.
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clintmartin
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Re:Should I insert a bus to raise levels?
2012/12/06 21:45:13
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jb101
Beepster
Low record level? All tracks are that low? Anyway... can't turn up your Master? Are you going to add any mastering effects? You could get some more oomph there. Someone also mentioned to me at one point inserting blank PC modules and using the input/output knobs to adjust gain. A bus would work too. IDK... more details perhaps?
Also.. hiya, Clint. ;-)
I mentioned using blank PC FXchain modules, but more to gain stage within the PC to prevent overloading individual modules.
At the OP, it depends what you are preparing the projects for. Mastering? Then you want to leave plenty of headroom for the mastering engineer.
Are you recording at 24 bit or 16?
Unlike the analog days, you don't need to record too hot.
There are better ways to raise the levels than having to insert a buss. Explain a little more about what you're doing, and we can offer some more accurate advice.
This may be just what I'm looking for. Sometimes I forget basic tricks,and this is a good one. Basically I just want to raise the volume about 10 db peak without affecting the sound...
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VariousArtist
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Re:Should I insert a bus to raise levels?
2012/12/06 23:35:18
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clintmartin
I've got a song that I'm starting to like, but my levels are at -22 db. Is setting up a new stereo bus the best or most transparrent way to raise the levels? It seems that doing this alone raises the volume quite a bit. Another way is to turn up the gain on every track...guess I'm just wondering what you guys do. I realize I have several options, I'm just trying to learn some good habits for the future. One of course would be, to record with a higher level.
Hello clintmartin -- here's how I approach things as a general guide Before I do any mixing I try set my Volume faders to their default position at 0dB and adjust the Gain control on each each track, in isolation and with no FX, such that the levels are peaking just below 0dB. Once complete, I try to leave the Gain control fixed at whatever those levels are for the remainder of the mix. Then, as I add FX and mix, I only use the volume control to get the relative levels of the tracks. Usually I have to start off by lowering all the volume faders a bit because of what I did initially with the gain control. Of course there are no hard and fast rules that you need to abide by and there's always a point where I deviate from my own guidelines, but I find that this brings some consistent meaning to gain and volume, and sanity to the overall process as a result -- at least for the the initial phase of getting started with serious mixing. Just one other point that someone else touched on, and that has to do with the bit level that you are recording at. If possible avoid recording at 16-bit, and consider 24-bit as a very decent minimum. You have a lot more headroom that way and can worry less about recording at "optimal" levels, which in the old days in analog meant driving up to and beyond 0dB (to get lower Signal-to-Noise ratio as well as perhaps some pleasing analog distortion sound), and for digital it meant trying to get close to but NEVER recording above 0dB (which would cause nasty digital clipping that is anything but pleasing). At 24 bits you can afford to be more conservative with your recordings, but if you are having to push the gain up during mixing then you may want to revisit those recording levels... These are my guidelines based on what I've learned over the years. Hope it helps, and as they say YMMV....
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clintmartin
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Re:Should I insert a bus to raise levels?
2012/12/07 06:31:44
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I record at 24bit 48 khz. Thanks, Peter. Adjusting the gain knobs is exactly what I did with this one. This song wasn't meant to be completed or kept, I was just jamming along and trying to learn some Sonar feature and got a bit lazy. Once again, lesson learned. It is a nice advantage of a digital setup though....that things are easily saved.
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