Channel Gain Knob (do you use it?)

Author
deanx
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 113
  • Joined: 2008/10/05 10:11:10
  • Status: offline
2012/12/07 14:07:25 (permalink)

Channel Gain Knob (do you use it?)

Hi
 
One part I get confused about in a X1 is the gain / trim dial. I know what a gain / trim knob does and users mixers all the time, but when recording with a DAW I set the input level from my guitar and mics on the interface (the usual up to point clipping then back it of a bit).
 
With the input levels set the on the interface I assume I just keep the gain pots in X1 set to 0db? Or is there a better method?
 
I'm guessing that if you alter the gain knob you also affect the level of signal going into the effects bin and any pro channel modules?
 
Thanks
Dean
#1

15 Replies Related Threads

    Beepster
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 18001
    • Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
    • Status: offline
    Re:Channel Gain Knob (do you use it?) 2012/12/07 14:10:25 (permalink)
    I try not to fiddle with them unless necessary on audio tracks but the gain knobs on MIDI tracks actually adjust the note velocity which is useful. Particularly for MIDI drums.
    #2
    AT
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10654
    • Joined: 2004/01/09 10:42:46
    • Location: TeXaS
    • Status: offline
    Re:Channel Gain Knob (do you use it?) 2012/12/07 14:23:10 (permalink)
    Don't mess with them unless you have a specific reason.  It is another gain stage (the first in SONAR) and, ideally, your front end should control it for recording.  For mixing, your signal should be at a level where gain staging later should take care of things.  If you've exhausted them, that is the time to reach for trim.

    @

    https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
    http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
     
    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    #3
    drewfx1
    Max Output Level: -9.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 6585
    • Joined: 2008/08/04 16:19:11
    • Status: offline
    Re:Channel Gain Knob (do you use it?) 2012/12/07 14:30:50 (permalink)
    2 major uses:

    1. It is at the front of the track/bus before the FX bin, whereas the fader is after the FX bin. So you can use it to set the level that is getting sent to your FX.

    2. On a bus, if you send several channels to it you can end up with the combined levels being higher than you might want. It's much easier to just reduce the level here than it is to do what most people seem to suggest and reduce every single send/fader feeding the bus.

     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
    #4
    brundlefly
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14250
    • Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
    • Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
    • Status: offline
    Re:Channel Gain Knob (do you use it?) 2012/12/07 14:44:40 (permalink)
    drewfx1


    2 major uses:

    1. It is at the front of the track/bus before the FX bin, whereas the fader is after the FX bin. So you can use it to set the level that is getting sent to your FX.

    2. On a bus, if you send several channels to it you can end up with the combined levels being higher than you might want. It's much easier to just reduce the level here than it is to do what most people seem to suggest and reduce every single send/fader feeding the bus.


    Exactly. But to clarify with respect to the OP's question, audio track gain only affects the signal from an existing/recorded audio clip, not live input signals. So, yes, you need to set input gain on your interface to get the initial record level correct.

    MIDI "Gain" (a.k.a. Vel+, a.k.a. Velocity Offset), on the other hand, is applied to live input as well as existing clips.



    SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424  (24-bit, 48kHz)
    Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
    #5
    AT
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10654
    • Joined: 2004/01/09 10:42:46
    • Location: TeXaS
    • Status: offline
    Re:Channel Gain Knob (do you use it?) 2012/12/07 15:01:22 (permalink)
    Yea, Drew,

    but he was asking about recording, is how I read it.  The FX bin is a good one the OP should be aware of , as is the bus issue.  Or the PC channel, for that matter, if you want to drive or unsaturate the lead PC.  Of course, we now have a gain module, too.

    @

    https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
    http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
     
    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
    #6
    GIM Productions
    Max Output Level: -73 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 860
    • Joined: 2005/12/14 05:07:56
    • Status: offline
    Re:Channel Gain Knob (do you use it?) 2012/12/07 15:11:31 (permalink)
    Yes,absolutely,it's very important for gain setting with pro channel modules and console emu.

    Intel i7 3600,Asus Z170P,16 GIG Corsair ram,Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 i\o,Nektar Impact LX 49,Focusrite Liquid Mix,Monitors ADAM-K&H,Sonar Platinum
    Windows 10 SP1
    Producer....more stuff in SStudio, Rome ,Italy.
    #7
    sharke
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 13933
    • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
    • Location: NYC
    • Status: offline
    Re:Channel Gain Knob (do you use it?) 2012/12/07 16:13:49 (permalink)
    Sometimes you might use a loop or sample that's too hot for the ProChannel from the get go. In these cases rolling back the gain knob is the only way to cool it down before it enters the ProChannel. 

    I also use it as a quick fix on the master bus if something's overheating the ProChannel and I don't have time to isolate the offending signal and revise track levels etc. 

    James
    Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
    #8
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 16775
    • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
    • Location: Bristol, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re:Channel Gain Knob (do you use it?) 2012/12/07 16:25:20 (permalink)
    Many people use the input gain on the Audio tracks to set an initial mix where all faders are at 0dB

    This means any fader movements are always made towards the top end of their range which has much greater resolution than the lower range - therefore adjustments will be more precise.

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
    Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
    #9
    Mully
    Max Output Level: -60 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1545
    • Joined: 2004/09/15 02:08:05
    • Location: Adelaide, Oztralia
    • Status: offline
    Re:Channel Gain Knob (do you use it?) 2012/12/07 17:12:50 (permalink)
    +1 for Jonesey.

    The starting reference is being gain neutral with faders at 0db (hence zero gain) and using the trims where required to achieve that zero gain starting point. From there you have + or - gain adjustments via faders.

    This is a long topic with various methods available though.

    Cheers.

    ASUS H270, i7-7700, JLM BA & 1290, LA2A Opto4, loads of guff.
    #10
    Beepster
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 18001
    • Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
    • Status: offline
    Re:Channel Gain Knob (do you use it?) 2012/12/07 17:30:07 (permalink)
    This means any fader movements are always made towards the top end of their range which has much greater resolution than the lower range - therefore adjustments will be more precise.

    Hi, Jonesey... What does this mean? Is there finer control around 0db? I've never looked to see if there was a difference... yanno, cause I'm still kind of derping my way through all this. Cheers.
    #11
    deanx
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 113
    • Joined: 2008/10/05 10:11:10
    • Status: offline
    Re:Channel Gain Knob (do you use it?) 2012/12/07 17:55:59 (permalink)
    I think Jonesey means that the top half of the fader covers a smaller dynamic range -10db to 0db (depending how you set your meters i guess). Where as the bottom half of faders  covers a greater range so a small fader move could be making quite a drastic change.

    #12
    deanx
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 113
    • Joined: 2008/10/05 10:11:10
    • Status: offline
    Re:Channel Gain Knob (do you use it?) 2012/12/07 17:58:23 (permalink)
    So is there a way of checking how hot an audio file is going into the channel?

    Can you change the channel meters to PFL (Pre fader Level) for example?

    Thanks
    Dean
    #13
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 16775
    • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
    • Location: Bristol, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re:Channel Gain Knob (do you use it?) 2012/12/07 17:59:00 (permalink)
    Yes - basically because the Decibel scale is logarithmic, not linear

    ^^^ reply to your post #12

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
    Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
    #14
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 16775
    • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
    • Location: Bristol, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re:Channel Gain Knob (do you use it?) 2012/12/07 18:02:23 (permalink)
    deanx


    So is there a way of checking how hot an audio file is going into the channel?

    Can you change the channel meters to PFL (Pre fader Level) for example?

    Thanks
    Dean

    With the gain at 0dB  and the track volume @ 0dB you'll get a very good idea of how hot a track is (no processing)

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
    Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
    #15
    Beepster
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 18001
    • Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
    • Status: offline
    Re:Channel Gain Knob (do you use it?) 2012/12/07 18:15:59 (permalink)
    Well shyote... that's good to know. I will now start getting my tracks in range with the gain knob before mixing. Thanks!
    #16
    Jump to:
    © 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1