earcandy
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 40
- Joined: 2004/10/16 11:12:54
- Location: Santa Barbara, California
- Status: offline
Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
Boy do I need your help. Ive been doing this since Cakewalk was first released all the way up to X2. And I still have no idea what I am doing. My issue is basically that my audio recordings of my finished projects sound terrible. The sound is not near as crisp and clean as when I am creating the project in Sonar, and I am almost certain its either because of my equipment or the way I have things setup. Here is what I have: Windows XP PC with 4GB Ram Mackie 1202VLZPro Mixer Excho Mia sound card. SonarX2 Roland XV-88 I think my issue is and has always been using a mixer. Its just too much for me and I am certain I just never have things plugged in the right way and routed and adjusted correctly etc. 99.9% of my works are instrumental. I use my Roland XV-88 and a few virtual instruments - usually Real Guitar and Dimension. I also often use drum loops. Im wondering how I can simplify - any way for me to make my music without the mixer and just go direct to the Mia card? Or is there a much simpler mixer I should use in place of the Mackie? Keep in mind I am mostly recording midi tracks to audio, virtual instruments to audio, and then exporting all 3 audio tracks to an Mp3 or .wav. The end result never sounds near as good. Always sounds muffled, the mix is way off from what I hear while recording it also. Sort of this phaser kind of sound... www.myjefe.com
Jeff Google SBComposer for my music and videos
|
dcumpian
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4124
- Joined: 2005/11/03 15:50:51
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/19 15:16:23
(permalink)
☄ Helpful
I use a Mackie 1604 in my setup and though I don't have any experience with your particular model, I can't imagine the mixer is really at fault. Do the individual tracks that you record to audio sound as you expect them to when you compare them to the original Midi? If not, then there is something in the way the signal is getting to your DAW that is causing the issue. If they do, then you are likely realizing that simply exporting the tracks to a WAV or MP3 is not real mixing. Any time signals are combined, the character of both signals is changed.
Once you've converted your Midi tracks to audio, you need to mix each track so that the sum sounds the way you expect it to. That also means using compression and EQ when needed. I am by no means an expert, and it has taken me years to get my mixes to where I can at least be comfortable letting others listen to them.
As for the phasey sound, if you only hear that in MP3 versions, try upping the bitrate for the MP3 converter you are using. You shouldn't hear compression artifacts like that at higher bitrates (192 +).
Regards,
Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
|
dcumpian
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4124
- Joined: 2005/11/03 15:50:51
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/19 15:17:59
(permalink)
Oh, also, it might help us if you can describe how everything is connected...
Regards,
Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/19 16:56:55
(permalink)
Sounds like you are doing something wonky in the mixdown. You're saying it sounds okay when recording/mixing but the final product is screwed up?
Are you trying to mixdown through the mixer (ie: sending your mix through the board and recording the resulting stereo)? I used to try to do that with Nuendo and it definitely caused very bad results. You need to use the Export function in Sonar and make sure you understand what everything in the Export dialog box means.
Seriously what you are hearing in your mix should be what your end results sound like if you are setting up your export/mixdown properly. A little more detail on how you are doing this and letting us know exactly when the sound starts to deteriorate in the process would help.
If I'm way off base my apologies but the reason I mentioned the mixdown through mixer thing is because of the phasing sound you mentioned. That's what used to happen to me when I tried going through my mixer. I did actually manage to get it under control eventually to get it sounding more normal but it was the COMPLETELY wrong way to approach things and when I just started using the internal mixdown feature in Nuendo everything was all good.
Cheers.
|
earcandy
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 40
- Joined: 2004/10/16 11:12:54
- Location: Santa Barbara, California
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/19 17:20:39
(permalink)
Dan thank you Sir!! By the way..I LOVE your work!
post edited by earcandy - 2012/12/19 17:24:19
Jeff Google SBComposer for my music and videos
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/19 17:24:57
(permalink)
Okay one thing I'll say after taking a look at the Mia (I was envisioning the Gina which has a couple multi ins) you should really think about getting a more versatile interface. If you are just doing a couple tracks at a time you could get away with spending around $150 and get something decent quality. If you are willing to spend around $250-300 you could get a FastrackPro (M-Audio) or a Scarlett 18i6 (Focusrite... which I own and it's great). Then you'll have some multi ins (XLR with mic pres/phantom power, instrument in and line in) as well as MIDI i/o. With the Scarlett you'd have a bunch of extra analog ins as well as SPDIF and optical connections too. Without something like that I think you are stuck using a mixer with the MIA. Just makes things a lot easier when you can plug straight into the interface.
Just a thought.
|
dcumpian
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4124
- Joined: 2005/11/03 15:50:51
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/19 17:33:01
(permalink)
Hey Beepster, I got the impression that he is mixing by exporting the tracks to WAV/MP3. I don't think he is exporting via playback through the mixer. That's just acting like a patchbay, I think.
I could be wrong though, which is why I asked how everything is connected.
Regards,
Dan
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/19 17:40:49
(permalink)
Yeah, I was taking a really wild guess there. Pretty much because I did it before with similar results and... well my brain's not 100% there today. I was also gonna mention the export settings more like dithering and what not but couldn't really tell how he was doing stuff from his OP.
Again... I am totally spaced today and quite possibly talking out my bum.
;-)
|
earcandy
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 40
- Joined: 2004/10/16 11:12:54
- Location: Santa Barbara, California
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/19 17:45:42
(permalink)
Basically here's what I do:
Write the tune using a combo of drum loops, virtual instruments, and midi from my XV-88.
Once the tune is complete, I mute any audio tracks and playback the rest thru the mixer to the MIA and record those midi tracks to audio.
Then I get rid of all tracks in the project except for the audio tracks. I set my levels etc, do any processing, and then export to an mp3 or wav or both.
The end result never sounds clear and crisp as it does when I just play it back thru Sonar.
Jeff Google SBComposer for my music and videos
|
Guitarhacker
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 24398
- Joined: 2007/12/07 12:51:18
- Location: NC
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/19 17:47:04
(permalink)
I do not use a mixer at all.
My interface is a Focusrite Saffire and has preamps built in so I run everything direct to it.
The entire process here in INSIDE the box.
I have mastering software and everything works and sounds good
You might want to get a new interface and ditch the mixer.... listen to my tunes to see the results I get with this setup
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/19 17:56:28
(permalink)
Is there a MIDI in/out on that keyboard? If so you could bypass the mixer entirely. I'm still a little confused as to what your doing (seriously my brain is toast today) but I'm not seeing why the mixer is coming into play at all here. Even if the keyboard doesn't have MIDI but has a line outs you should be able to plug straight into the MIA, do your mixing in SOnar and then just do a straight export.
I may be missing something here and I'm more of a guitar guy so again if I'm screwing up my apologies. Cheers.
|
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 18001
- Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/19 17:58:38
(permalink)
Oh and are you saying you write some components like the drums or whatever in Sonar without the keyboard or are you doing everything on the keyboard? Just curious.
|
paulo
Max Output Level: -13 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6218
- Joined: 2007/01/30 05:06:57
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/19 17:59:34
(permalink)
☄ Helpful
earcandy
Basically here's what I do:
Write the tune using a combo of drum loops, virtual instruments, and midi from my XV-88.
Once the tune is complete, I mute any audio tracks and playback the rest thru the mixer to the MIA and record those midi tracks to audio.
Then I get rid of all tracks in the project except for the audio tracks. I set my levels etc, do any processing, and then export to an mp3 or wav or both.
The end result never sounds clear and crisp as it does when I just play it back thru Sonar.
Don't know anything about your mixer, but for softsynths midi tracks you don't need to run them through anything to convert to audio, just bounce to track within Sonar or Freeze them - job done. I tend to freeze them with the fx bin bypassed, then unbypass the fx bin afterwards. That way I can tweak the fx without having to unfreeze the track, which will lose any clip automation. When you expert the project wav - how are you doing ths - ie what settings ? Also, when you say it sounds different afterwards, do you mean played through same set-up or elsewhere, like in the car ? ^^^^  Herb in using an apparently helpful post as shameless plug shocker lol !  
post edited by paulo - 2012/12/19 18:05:42
|
dcumpian
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4124
- Joined: 2005/11/03 15:50:51
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/19 18:00:55
(permalink)
earcandy
Basically here's what I do:
Write the tune using a combo of drum loops, virtual instruments, and midi from my XV-88.
Once the tune is complete, I mute any audio tracks and playback the rest thru the mixer to the MIA and record those midi tracks to audio.
Then I get rid of all tracks in the project except for the audio tracks. I set my levels etc, do any processing, and then export to an mp3 or wav or both.
The end result never sounds clear and crisp as it does when I just play it back thru Sonar.
I basically do the same thing, but I record my hardware instruments one track at a time, instead of all at once, if I understood what you said. I also archive the midi cause I never know when I might need it again to layer another instrument, or even replace one if I find something that fits better. VST's are handled similarly, but never leave the DAW. After that, everything is processed and mixed. It sounds like you are saying that everything sounds fine even after you have converted the midi to audio, but doesn't sound the same after you export it? If that's the case, maybe tell us how you are doing the export. Regards, Dan
post edited by dcumpian - 2012/12/19 18:02:53
Mixing is all about control. My music: http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.
|
earcandy
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 40
- Joined: 2004/10/16 11:12:54
- Location: Santa Barbara, California
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/20 11:12:22
(permalink)
Wow.. What an amazing group! Thank you ALL for the help. I think Paulo hit the nail on the head - since I dont record any hardware instruments it sounds like my issue is actually not knowing that you can "bounce" midi to audio and same for the virtual instruments.
All this time I had absolutely no idea that could be done. I have been recording my midi tracks to audio via the mixer. Getting the mixer out of the mix - should improve my mix!
Going to read up on this bounce/freeze deal today and try it out tonight!
Happy Holidays to all of you and thank you so much!
Jeff Google SBComposer for my music and videos
|
earcandy
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 40
- Joined: 2004/10/16 11:12:54
- Location: Santa Barbara, California
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/21 09:50:44
(permalink)
The Freeze option is amazing and I could kick myself for not knowing about this for all this time! Thank you all.
I am not able however to do this on midi tracks - only seems to work on my virtual instrument tracks.
On the midi tracks I have a freeze options button - but no option to freeze the track?
Am I wrong in thinking I could convert my midi tracks to audio just as I did with my virtual ins tracks? And if not why is the option greyed out?
Jeff Google SBComposer for my music and videos
|
earcandy
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 40
- Joined: 2004/10/16 11:12:54
- Location: Santa Barbara, California
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/21 11:41:30
(permalink)
I think I finally understand:
Note 2: A MIDI track can only be frozen if it is routed to a software instrument
So my only option to get my midi tracks from my Roland XV-88 to audio is to playback and record to audio - correct?
Jeff Google SBComposer for my music and videos
|
AT
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10654
- Joined: 2004/01/09 10:42:46
- Location: TeXaS
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/21 11:46:06
(permalink)
Jeff,
no, you can record the Roland just like an acoustic instrument - sans the microphone. Route SONAR to play the midi in the Roland (or internally the roland). Audio out from the Roland back to interface and record the audio. It is just like freezing the tracks of a soft synth, tho you have to manually patch things.
@
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re:Help me with my setup? My final product sounds NOTHING like when its being recorded
2012/12/21 17:33:37
(permalink)
Earcandy - there are 2 different types of freeze. You can freeze a track, or you can freeze a synth. I personally never freeze a track, as it's so much easier to freeze the synth. This doesn't freeze your Fx, so you can mix as you go, add whatever processing you want, but if your system starts to suffer from dropouts or slowdows or you simply run out of CPU horsepower, you can help by freezing the synth to remove them from memory. If you want to edit your Midi later at a later stage, simply unfreeze the synth, make your change & re-freeze, and you're back in Audio land. BUT. If you have a reasonably modern machine you might find you never need to freeze anything and you can run your exports directly out of the project as a wave file
post edited by Bristol_Jonesey - 2012/12/21 17:35:01
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|