Having trouble with a PCIE slot and a UAD2 Quad

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wmb
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2013/01/12 04:12:42 (permalink)

Having trouble with a PCIE slot and a UAD2 Quad

I am almost a week into what is shaping up to be the most frustrating computer build in my life. I've had terribly complex systems with Magma chassis, multiple UAD and Powercore cards, firewire  and PCI interfaces. I've seen just about everything but my current less is more system is turning out to be a total PITA.

Mobo is an Asus Z77 Pro Thunderbolt
i7 3770k processor
16 gigs of corsair ram
500 gig system drive
1TB RAID 1 for audio
PCI 1394 card with TI chipset for my interface.
650 watt corsair powersupply
H60 water cooler
Windows 7/64

It is my understanding that the i7 can handle the video demands of a DAW so everything on that list plus one UAD2 Quad would be rounding out the list.

After a myriad of little issues with trying to get things perfect with the install and the functionality of the audio driver for my Tascam DM3200/IF-FW audio interface I finally got things around to installing all my plugins including my UAD card. The card has been installed in my system that is being replaced for quite a while and working totally perfectly. 

The problem is that there seems to be some kind of connectivity issue with the card. Most of the time only one green light toward the bottom lights up when the system powers on but a few times all the lights have come on as expected and the card will become installed in the system. Most of the time only the one green light comes on and the LED on the bracket just flashes red over and over. 

There have been 4 occasions where the card has successfully powered up correctly. Once was just the system described above and the other times it was with a Radeon HD 4870 video card (because my eyes flashed some comment about i7 video causing some problems. I really don't want to use a video card if possible, especially a beast like the 4870 taking up two spaces and having yet another fan in the system.

The bracket on the UAD2 card is a little wonky and doesn't really have the best geometry when it's installed. I'm not sure if this is the problem or not. I've tried with and without a screw. Without a screw is too unstable. The card can move very easily and would be totally unsuitable for normal use without being mounted with a screw.

I'm at a loss. I think the card is compatible because I was able to launch and open plugins (although I couldn't play back without an audio interface connected). The whole thing is one big frustrating mystery like I haven't had in a long time. Ugh.

Any thoughts?
post edited by wmb - 2013/01/13 11:37:23

X2 & X3c - GA-Z77X-UP5 TH mobo | i7 3770k | 16 gigs RAM | Win7/64 | Audio Drive 2TB RAID0 | Data & Backup 2TB RAID1 | OS drive 256 gig SSD | Apogee AD16x -> Tascam DM3200 -> IF-FWDM-mk2 via Apple FW to Thunderbolt adapter -
#1

11 Replies Related Threads

    Jim Roseberry
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    Re:Having trouble with a PCIE slot and a UAD2 Quad 2013/01/12 11:56:51 (permalink)
    If you have a spare video card, install it and see if the UAD2 initializes properly on a consistent basis.
    If so, the UAD2 and onboard video are probably going after the same memory/resources.
    HD5450 is inexpensive... will do the job... and they're easy to find passive-cooled.

    If you need a passive-cooled video card with a little more "umph" for running video editing apps (Vegas Pro 12, Premier Pro CS6, After Effects, etc), then you could get a HD7750.


    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #2
    slartabartfast
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    Re:Having trouble with a PCIE slot and a UAD2 Quad 2013/01/12 20:30:23 (permalink)
    there seems to be some kind of connectivity issue with the card



    An intermittent failure of the physical/electrical connection to the card is a real possibility. You can try a contact  cleaner on both the card plug and socket (thin blotter paper or cardboard to gently abrade the socket connectors) and careful inspection of the socket for foreign matter or a damaged contact. If there is a cold/fractured solder point from the board to the socket, there is not much you can do. Have you tried any other cards in the socket, or the problematic card in another socket if available? The fact that the card was previously working in another system speaks against a card problem.
    #3
    wmb
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    Re:Having trouble with a PCIE slot and a UAD2 Quad 2013/01/13 02:19:57 (permalink)
    It appears that all the slots I've tried on the board with other cards are fully functioning as far as I can tell given that I've not really been able to do anything. I have noticed that if the computer is off for a very long time and I start it that the card will start properly. I can tell right away from the lights on the board if it will work.

    Since the UAD2 card works okay in the old computer I think this motherboard is too fast or doesn't give it enough power for some reason. After years of dealing with two slow starting powercore cards I am done with tricky startup routines. I want a computer I can reboot or turn on without crossing my fingers that everything will work the first time. I'm very disappointed that there's a problem with this build. I'm already facing the loss of many presets from some of my workhorse plugins due to upgrading from the powercore to native versions of the Sonnox plugs. I can't lose my UAD plugs too.

    Here's a video of the card initializing and the lights indicating that the card is alive. In this case it didn't load the driver properly but the card was at least on.


    http://youtu.be/iBAtgiMInjw




    Here's a video of what I see most of the time when the card doesn't initialize.


    http://youtu.be/z1ZE4Z5EaC0




    Not much can be learned from the videos but at least you can see what I see.
    #4
    slartabartfast
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    Re:Having trouble with a PCIE slot and a UAD2 Quad 2013/01/13 03:38:30 (permalink)
    What OS are you using? Since the LED seems to be an indicator that the driver is not communicating with the card, uninstalling and re-installing the software is a good idea. Rebooting may help. In order to provide the illusion of a fast boot,  windows 8 is designed not to do a full cold shut down and re-boot. It keeps the memory image of the last running kernel instance on the hard drive (sort of a modified hibernation state). If the driver is not loading properly on one boot, repeated power off and on (not by default a cold boot in Windows 8) may just re-create that unloaded state.

    https://windowssecrets.com/newsletter/with-windows-8-off-isnt-really-off/

    #5
    wmb
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    Re:Having trouble with a PCIE slot and a UAD2 Quad 2013/01/13 12:00:54 (permalink)
    Windows 7/64 (I've edited the original post).Windows 7/64 (I've edited the original post).

    I read that article and it's interesting. I don't think this motherboard has the exact same thing but it has some options for Fastboot and Bios Delay that I've adjusted to no avail. The card pretty much indicates immediately if it will work or not. 

    When the UAD2 card powers up successfully the two green LED's near the PCIE connector will illuminate as soon as the power button is pushed to start the machine. It seems to me like the one closest to the connector turns on a few ms before the second LED.


    I wish I had a handy way to test another power supply but I don't think that's it either. I have a 650 watt Corsair TX650M which should be more than adequate. I would figure the motherboard does the regulating of how much power is going where.
    #6
    slartabartfast
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    Re:Having trouble with a PCIE slot and a UAD2 Quad 2013/01/13 14:44:20 (permalink)
    A power supply problem is very very unlikely to be the cause of the problem. 

    Have you seen this?

    http://www.uaudio.com/support/uad/troubleshooting/UAD2-LED-Key.html

    #7
    wmb
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    Re:Having trouble with a PCIE slot and a UAD2 Quad 2013/01/13 22:57:05 (permalink)

    Yeah, I found that one rather quickly. I know that one of the videos above shows it with the flashing red and green pattern but I've had the solid green particularly when the card is in the slot closest to the CPU. That is my first choice slot anyway. I haven't yet captured a 100% successful boot on video yet. 


    I also agree that it's most likely not a PS issue but among drastic changes I could make a PS swap is one of the easiest. Buying another motherboard is most likely the only option that has a chance of working aside from trying a different version of the UAD2 card (if something about this card is a little bit picky). Unfortunately that's not really an option. I don't think there's anything an end user can do with this hardware configuration to make it work. I'm not ruling out that some telephone tech support might have something to offer.


    At this point I'm looking at a Gigabyte UP5 motherboard as my next alternative. I'm not really that familiar with their products. I built one for someone a few years ago and it seems to be serving them well enough but they're not a very demanding user. Until now I've done pretty well with Asus but I cannot hold on to an incompatible old flame. 


    No easy answers to this one but I think calling it quits on this setup if I can't get some meaningful suggestions tomorrow morning is the most cost effective move. I've been down for over a week on this build and I budgeted this time to be getting familiar with the new setup and getting all the my software and controllers configured the way I like. Being stuck and PCIE card compatibility issue is a waste of time.

    slartabartfast


    A power supply problem is very very unlikely to be the cause of the problem. 

    Have you seen this?

    http://www.uaudio.com/support/uad/troubleshooting/UAD2-LED-Key.html


    #8
    fireberd
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    Re:Having trouble with a PCIE slot and a UAD2 Quad 2013/01/14 06:55:44 (permalink)
    If you are looking at a new motherboard, I've built two new systems in the last year.  One for my DAW and another for other uses.  My DAW is using a Gigabyte GAZ77X UD5H and an i7 3770.  I don't have a UAD, but everything else is working OK.   The second PC is using an ASRock Z77 Professional motherboard and an i5 CPU.  Both have UEFI BIOS'.  I'm thinking of swapping motherboards as the ASRock seems to have a faster SATA III controller (I can transfer data between two internal hard drives faster for one thing).

    I don't use the fast boot, etc on either.

    FWIW, I see a lot of problem posts with ASUS Motherboards on the computer forums I visit.  Whether its problems with ASUS or just that there are more ASUS boards in use?  I see a lot of problem posts with ASUS Xonar PC sound cards too.    

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    #9
    wmb
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    Re:Having trouble with a PCIE slot and a UAD2 Quad 2013/01/14 16:16:32 (permalink)
    I managed to catch the issue on video. First start of the morning and all is good. I launched X1, installed some UA plugins, recorded and played back. Restarted and the card is unrecognized. In 8 hours or so I should be able to go again. Here's a playlist...

    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQZwjxmhazpNTRWlGg9fB3DD5rB9uByFk
    #10
    spacealf
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    Re:Having trouble with a PCIE slot and a UAD2 Quad 2013/01/14 16:20:45 (permalink)
    I have a going on 7 year old ASUS motherboard. Works fine. What I think I heard though about newer motherboards and computer is that the slots are shared. They seem not to be separate. Not sure what that means, but extra slots are PCI-3 1X slots (small). And most of the time, made for newer cards. Glad I use a USB audio interface. There is no room for bigger (deeper) cards and such. Ran into that problem even with my old computer and some video cards when having a audio card in the slot below. Now there is add-on wi-fi and whatever else also. Good luck, but heat would be a concern with anything like that also. That is just the way they make the newer motherboards now, so have to be aware of whatever it is they are coming out next. If there are newer short-profile (depth) cards, then or when they come out, then that is what you will have to use I guess. That is at least the way I understand it right now. I know my new computer (gateway) compared to my old computer is - cheaper made ( but it is a cheap computer anyway - my old one was not all that expensive either.) Those engineers keep changing things around, and well, the cards made for them - that is probably going to be a mystery for awhile also.

     
     
    #11
    ohgrant
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    Re:Having trouble with a PCIE slot and a UAD2 Quad 2013/01/14 18:09:59 (permalink)
     I built a PC last year that I'm still trying to work the kinks out of. Pretty stable for the most part except after about an hour working on a project, I'll get some drop outs and have to restart X2 other than that pretty stable with 3 powercores, 1 UAD-2 and on occasion my Focusrite Liquid mix. On a Gigabyte Z68.

     I'm still using the onboard VIA 1394 chip for my firewire and I also heard that TI chipset cards are recommended. I've tried 2 pro audio recommended PCIe cards with TI chips. The Lindy card and the SIIG. Both install but intermittent connection and no funtionality. The slot I had reserved for it had only one other device sharing the IRQ.
     I was reading that TI chipset firewire needs its own IRQ. Not sure if that's the case.

     I'm thinking that if that TI chipset PCI card you have may be the conflict. If you have onboard I would give it a try with the TI card removed.
    post edited by ohgrant - 2013/01/14 19:02:20

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