Question for other digital drummers

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Cactus Music
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2013/01/16 12:44:34 (permalink)

Question for other digital drummers

Wife bought me a set of Yamaha DTX400k Drums for my 60th. They are working great and even the built in sounds are better than I would have expected. But. 

Lets record to Sonar, my reason for wanting these puppies for a long time. 

OK, no MIDI, just USB. No problem, W7 installed driver in 20 sec. 
Good , Sonar lists as MIDI device so it's a go set up took 1 min.  

Now here's my first issue. 
I inserted both TTs-1 and Session Drummer 3 64 bit. 

TTS-1 plays Open Hi Hat and Ride to bell. 
Session drummer doesn't do open hi hat? 
I tried loading a few different Hats and they all are the same? Is there more to session drummer I'm missing?
 The open pedal shows as a controller event and if you hit it while open it's a G#. 
Anyone know a hi hat that responds to controllers??. 

Trouble is the sounds in the brain sound good enough to use, but that will be a pain. Only stereo out! 

Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
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#1

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    Beepster
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    Re:Question for other digital drummers 2013/01/16 12:50:22 (permalink)
    I haven't used SD3 for a while but I'm pretty sure with the right kit loaded (you may need to buy an expansion pack... the Andy John's kit is quite nice) you can map the open/close hi hat stuff.

    However BFD has a very nice way of handling hi hat stuff. Might want to check if BFD Eco is still on sale. I only paid $50 for it last summer when it was on special and I love it. I even got an extra free kit with it.

    Cheers.
    #2
    thebiglongy
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    Re:Question for other digital drummers 2013/01/16 12:50:51 (permalink)
    If you want to make the most of them, get something like BFD2 which is on offer now ;)
    Oodles of great drum sounds for a pinch!!

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    #3
    Mooch4056
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    Re:Question for other digital drummers 2013/01/16 12:55:39 (permalink)
    thebiglongy


    If you want to make the most of them, get something like BFD2 which is on offer now ;)
    Oodles of great drum sounds for a pinch!!

    I agree. Bfd2 or superior drummer are the two big dogs. I triggers them. With my electronic kit all the time. No problem with open and close high hats. Ez drummer is good too and inexpensive 

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    #4
    Cactus Music
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    Re:Question for other digital drummers 2013/01/16 13:08:23 (permalink)
    Thanks , OK so Session drummer is junk? I guess you get what you pay for. 
    Isn't Ez drummer included free somewhere around here? 
    I have Groove agent too via Cubase, might try that.. 

    Funny I don't ask for much,,, but open hi hat is like a bare bones drum sound and I can't believe SD won't do it, it must,,, I'm not giving up.. I have a couple of very good kits set up with it so hate to change., I have no money, waiting for my first $400 a month pension check ! :( 

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
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    3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
     http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
     
     
    #5
    konradh
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    Re:Question for other digital drummers 2013/01/16 13:29:45 (permalink)
    I do NOT think Session Drummer 3 is junk.  I think it is better than a lot of virtual drummers and maybe not as good as some.  Superior and BFD are excellent.

    I would like someone very familiar with SD3 to respond here because I have a similar issue though not related to external drum pads.  For example, if I load a set of drums into SD3, I get open and closed hat, and both snare and sidestick snare.  However, if I change sounds--that is, if I load a new snare or new hi-hat--then I have the problem the original poster describes: only closed hat and no sidestick.

    I am certain your drum kit will work with SD3 and we just need someone who knows it inside out to resolve this.

    Konrad
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    #6
    CJaysMusic
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    Re:Question for other digital drummers 2013/01/16 13:45:48 (permalink)
    TTS-1 plays Open Hi Hat and Ride to bell.   Session drummer doesn't do open hi hat?  

    They do, you just have to change the MIDI numbers in the drums brain or you can change the drum sound in those synths




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    #7
    Cactus Music
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    Re:Question for other digital drummers 2013/01/16 14:57:53 (permalink)
    OK I figured it out
    You have to use the sfx files. Then it works. 
    Most of the sounds were in folders and they are all flac. 
    The sfx files were out of the folders and way down the list where I never noticed them. 
    Now I have to dig though all of them and build some new kits. 

    Thanks all 

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
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    #8
    drummaman
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    Re:Question for other digital drummers 2013/01/16 15:03:28 (permalink)

    Hey Cactus - welcome to digital drumming!!

    I agree with CJ - SD3 will work, but the MIDI notes from your digital hi-hat need to match those of the open-closed sounds of SD3.
    Does that DTX400k have it's own brain with sounds?
    If so, how do the hi-hats sound and feel in it?

    I have the DTX950, and have found that the analog outputs are better in real-time, (the hats are very expressive), then you can go back in later and play with the MIDI stream after you've played the part(s) right.

    I'll record both the stereo analog out from the DTX900/950 brain, as well as the MIDI stream. That gives you much better (shorter) latency when playing along with other recorded tracks. (Or real-time with other live musicians!)

    Look up Drum Mapping and you'll see there is a whole world waiting for you!

    Enjoy!
    MG

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    #9
    Cactus Music
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    Re:Question for other digital drummers 2013/01/16 16:36:03 (permalink)
    Thanks MG, You might of missed my last post. It's the sfx thing. No mapping or anything needed. It all works now. As a bonus you get more sounds for every part. The snare has 3 sounds now too. Each a different note. Before with the Flac. files you had the same sound assigned to 3 notes.  
    And yes I do find the sound in the brain are more natural than the triggered VST's. 
    I think all DTX brains all use the same sounds. The difference in kits is the zones and quality of pads. This is the entry level and the manual explains how to upgrade...$$$. 
    I'm finding the kick pedal wobbles to much and my foot slowly moves off kilter. There is no side stick. 

    I am strictly recording MIDI as I am a very amateur drummer and my kick timing sucks. Snare and hats are OK. Rolls are a joke...
    I can always run the midi back to the brain and record after I edit my sloppy playing. To bad it's only stereo. I can see I'll want a 4 output at least down the road. 
    Working on a song right now and had to take a break after 15 try's. I will post to song forum when done. 
    Thanks once again. 
    This is going to work! --- no more pounding on my controllers C and D keys. 

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
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    #10
    Maarkr
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    Re:Question for other digital drummers 2013/01/17 22:18:21 (permalink)
    Sounds like you have it going, but I'd still consider upgrading to a decent drum vst like they said above, bfd or addictive drums... keep an eye on them and you'll find a bargain price eventually.  they also have midi hits that u can drag into the song, and very good kits with nice sounding effects and spatial sounds.

    in the meantime, learn how to enable quantizing on record.

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    Bub
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    Re:Question for other digital drummers 2013/01/17 22:53:28 (permalink)
    Cactus Music

    Thanks , OK so Session drummer is junk? I guess you get what you pay for. 
    Isn't Ez drummer included free somewhere around here? 
    I have Groove agent too via Cubase, might try that.. 

    Funny I don't ask for much,,, but open hi hat is like a bare bones drum sound and I can't believe SD won't do it, it must,,, I'm not giving up.. I have a couple of very good kits set up with it so hate to change., I have no money, waiting for my first $400 a month pension check ! :(
    Session Drummer 3 is actually a very powerful program. One cool thing you can do is, you can drag any sample in to it in the Mixer section where the icons are.

    One thing you'll find though ... you'll have to do some surgical EQ'ing. For example, I use the GroovyKit_ Brushes all the time. The snare has a nasty ring to it that has to be EQ'd out. I use Sonitus with a Q of 24 and cut 480Hz out. But in order to do that, you have to assign each drum to it's own audio output. I see in your sig you're using 8.5. You have to set the outputs up manually in 8.5, but X1/X2 comes with a Template that has it all laid out for you. I started a blank project in 8.5 and set it all up and saved it as a Template. I don't use 8.5 anymore and don't have the template or I'd gladly provide a link to download it.

    In order to get the most out of SD3, you really need to take the time to set up the audio outputs, and put the PX-64 Percussion Strip on every audio output. All the samples are processed, and you can take the reverb and 'room' out of each drum with the PX-64 PS.

    Basically what the audio outputs do is, allow you to add effects to each individual drum. SD3 comes with 12 audio outputs. One for each sample in the Mixer section. The Cowbell is hidious. It's got a ring and a buzz to it. There's a few clunkers like that, but it is a very useful program, especially since it comes with Sonar.

    I have a set of Rock Band drums. You can get free software off the net to set it up as a midi drum set. I set it up with SD3 and used it and it worked great! I felt stupid clicking around on a toy drum set, but there's something about playing live that the Step Sequence just can't match.

    Basically all Session Drummer 3 is, is a sampler. It's going to sound only as good as the samples that are fed to it.


    "I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
    #12
    Cactus Music
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    Re:Question for other digital drummers 2013/01/18 00:31:02 (permalink)
    Hey Bub Thanks!  that's good info, And after I figured out the SFX thing I figured SD is just fine, I'm sure those other programs are good, but I'm broke and try and use what I've got.  All I need is a simple set up for now. 
    I'll play with the mixer and stuff as you say and see whats hidden away in there. It's like boring old TTS-1 is actually very powerful if you dig into it a little deeper than most people bother to do. The mixer has 2 efxs sends that you can do a lot with if you want to. There are even way more sounds hidden away that do not show on the regular properties lists and banks. 

    So I guess Session drummer is the same. Up till now I've just loaded different sounds from the file folders and that's it. I didn't even discover the mixer until very recently. This all takes time, My guess is at least 4 years to figure out most features in depth. That's why I'm not bothering to think about upgrading Sonar. Why pay for more features when I haven't used the ones I got right now. 

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
    Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
    3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
     http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
     
     
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