another post with no breaks.
 
Changed browsers.

again, apologies for the visual onslaught.

I had mentioned this earlier or maybe in a different thread, but as I try to get a good gain sound, it just ends up sounding distorted. That is what led me to start this thread. Thinking maybe the 'sound' I'm chasing is more compression than just gain, or at least better achievable thru a certain pedal(s). Even so, with gain adjustments on the amp, the distortion turns to crunch but then lacks power and sustain. I am getting so frustrated that I find myself NOT playing much lately. That's just not a good thing. Not sure about you guys but playing and creating music is what keeps me sane in this world. The balance is shifting so I gotta' get this fixed. I had thought last night that maybe what I should do is post a few samples of my sound to get some feedback from the forum. I don't think I trust my ears at this point so an outside perspective is probably a good thing. Then I read your post and you suggest the same thing. Must be the 'road to resolution'. ha I just need to figure out how to get stuff 'out there'. Never used dropbox or soundcloud or anything so have to figure that out first I guess. Your offer to PM you a wav file is also a good option. I may start there as I figure out how to get stuff to where others can hear and contribute feedback. I've sorta been wanting to do that with a couple songs anyway. Apparently 2013 is going to be 'glutton for punishment'.

 
Ok, let's cover a few more things bro. Just stay patient with me...we'll figure something out. :)
 
Maybe the amp you have isn't the right fit. I definitely don't dig those speakers...so that's going to play a role for sure. Another thing we may need to do here, is you should probably give me a tone from a pro that you like. I'll give you a few examples here that might set you straight.
 
Anything classic rock is usually a tube amp with very little gain in the head and maybe an over drive of sorts. They also achieve their sound from being so loud, the output tubes saturate. Think Angus Young, Jimmy Page (not current Jimmy because he now uses a 5150 lol) and early Eddie Van Halen. Eddie had a little more drive than the others, but without extreme volume or his variac, his amp would fizzle out sustain wise. His pups in that guitar are weak, yet VERY distinctive. But the tone is more a loud amp with just the right amount of drive and of course, the finger tonality.
 
If you like dudes like Randy Rhoads or George Lynch, Satriani or any of the dudes that pretty much created themselves in the 80's, this is a more processed tone that relies on high gain, but also the right compression setting, usually using a pretty stiff 4:1 ratio. What they do is...they jack the gain up and then compress the signal so it tightens up the sound removing the sound of over-gain. You know...when you have so much gain and chug a chord, it sounds like there is no percussiveness within the tone? It just pretty much sounds like a run one sentency of ya ya ya ya ya instead of chump chump. The "C" in chump represents the percussive strike...the P in chump represents the break in between your chugging, understand? Where ya ya ya is pretty continuous and doesn't have a seperated, distinguished break or percussive existence, if you will. I know I'm trying to talk in musical syllables here...but it's the best way I can explain it.
 
So when you compress a ya ya ya ya type tone and get it just right, it removes the exess gain, tightens it up, but takes that excess gain that you don't hear immediately in the sound, and turns it into sustain. The attack and release of the compressor stops the over-gain from happening, yet you still get the sustain effects after when holding notes because the compressor is relaxing a bit more at that point, understand?
 
If you're after modern gain or nu-breed metal etc, most of this in my opinion, is a hybrid of 80's and current tones. The difference is, they are not compressing as much and have amps that really have strong, tight pre-amp sections. The tighter and more gainy your pre-amp section is, the lower you can actually be and maintain a nice tone. This is why amps like the Mesa Dual Rectum Fryer are soo well liked in the modern guitar community. They get insane gain, they do sound good, and the gain you get out of that amp is extremely tight as opposed to the loose gain you would get out of a Marshall or what you seem to be experiencing with your Spyder.
 
That "crunch to mud" type sound where the distortion is not sustaining tells me right off the bat that the amp has a loose gain stage. Someone like AmpFixer could grab that head, and tighten up the gain stage with a custom mod and totally change the voicing of it for the better. You'll see/hear what I mean when you go to Sweetwater and try a few things. Definitely try that Peavey Vyper I've been bragging about. The gain is tight on that and you get gobs of sustain without that sound tripping over itself. It also has some really cool sounding effects in it that I personally didn't have a problem using. But even if you don't like that amp or it's too pricey or whatever, listen to how tight the gain is. Same with a Mesa or even those newer Marshalls that have like 3 channels and 100 knobs on them. LOL! They too have that tighter gain stage geared more for modern rock.
 
So really, the difference between today's high gain sounds vs. say, the 80's stuff I like is...they use either light compressor or no compression with high gain amps and a bit less mid range with a bit more low end accentuated. The 80's processed tones (the good guys at least) had more compression, more verb, and more mids and less bass. Their sounds at times were a bit thinner, but the distortion on most of their tones was a bit tighter due to the compression.
 
That said, the way they recorded guitars back then is a bit different than what they do today. If you recorded Randy Rhoads using his same rig using today's techniques and accepted frequencies that are currently being pushed compared to what was acceptable back then, it would be a totally different ballgame as far as how the sound would convey itself.
 
So keep some of this stuff in mind as it can really help you to get to where you need to be. And yeah, keep the wave file thing in mind or make me an mp3 or something. Also, don't ever consider sharing your stuff to be any punishment. Those that matter will help you. Those that are here to disrupt you and deter you from making any gain, will bash you due to the entertainment factor. The punishment in my opinion, is what you are going through now without any insight. sharing a few files with me or the community will only help you. You have nothing to be ashamed of with your playing or the tone you come up with. Someone in the know or someone that cares, knows what it's like to be in your position and will welcome you and your issues with open arms. At least that's the help and feedback you'll get from me bro. Talk soon. :)
 
-Danny

Peavey Vyper Tube 60 is one with a 6L6 Power tubes, I believe.  I have been interested in trying one of these out myself because I have heard several people say they were pretty good. 

For many years I've always kept my pedal array simple; Boss Overdrive + Amp and basically used the Overdrive 'on' for leads and the 'off' position for rhythm. 

Later I got my hands on a Sans Amp; it's pretty good but it died about 5 years later after having been through unmerciful abuse.  May that little beast R.I.P  *lol*  

Since about the mid-1990's I got a ZOOM; and in 2007 the ZOOM G2 series and it still works as new; sure the sounds are on the slightly thin-sounding side of the equation but; often when using an AMP that gives a nice lush, fat sound however in perspective with the mix (considering the style of music I did) guitars require quite a bit of EQ treatment to better fit in with the mix; to allow other instruments especially vocals (including harmony vocals) to cut thru much clearer; of course listening to the AMP'd guitar tracks on their own (solo'ed) may sound thin which reminds me why after all the ZOOM satisfies my needs along with greatly simplifying my setup. 

The other reasons;  ZOOM has a special noise reduction process built-in (option) but unlike other brands and their treatments such as; noise-gates; this ZOOM noise 'reduction' process not only eliminates noise before and after (typical noise gate effect) the ZOOM also eliminates noise 'throughout' without compromising the tone; this has advantages; 'clearer' tone and also in perspective with the overall mix. 

I have always preferred to simplify my personal studio setup; I keep it very lean and that policy extends to sound libraries and effects. By doing this; it cuts down unnecessary expenses and allows me to focus more on the 'song' writing more efficiently.  

WOA!

Danny, what do you mean Jimmy is using a 5150. Say it ain't so bro! I've seen pictures of his gear stash and his leftovers are better than a 5150. And I was all geared up to go buy Celebration Day this weekend. 

My favorite tone has always been Gilmour's.  Jimmy is high on the list though.  A 5150, wow, I would n't have guessed that.

I don't think Gilmour has anything to worry about brother.

LOL. 

Danny, yep, it starts out Gilmourish and then kind of slides into EVH.  Cool stuff, though.  So, is that just the tube pre and delay making up the majority of your tone.  Sounds pretty good.  I don't know of any plug that gets that "tube squeal" either.  There are just a lot of subtleties to tubes that are almost impossable to match.

Peter is back to what we have all come to expect!

It's nice (and depressing) on It Might Get Loud, when he goes into his instrument vault and breaks out God's Personal Vintage Marshall half stack and Les Paul, amid stacks of vintage instruments and amps. I could probably set up a nice studio here if I had that guitar to sell.

That being said, Page could play anything, he'd always make it sound like himself, as abundantly demonstrated by the Zeppelin catalog.