Helpful Replydrop outs when recording live tracks

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DigitalBoston
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2013/01/28 16:32:15 (permalink)

drop outs when recording live tracks

so what the scoop with the droputs is there a work around my delta 1010 buffers are up to 1024 and its backlash is givin me $#@%
i have a delta card with a a 990xf MB with a scorching raid )0( setup so my dpi is low and transfer rate is great.
 iv tried everything but cant get 3 words in without a drop.
 and x1 wont allow the x2 plugs( lame)
 what can i try besides hiting e to bypass FX, that worked before but now its not  even helpful
BTW i have a freash install on a clean drive..???
 i miss you x1
http://soundcloud.com/american-metal/where-still-alive
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CJaysMusic
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/28 16:37:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Try rasing your ASIO buffers to 1536 or 2024. Have you tried adjusting the Audio INI file for the drop out setting? Try rasing that setting.
Also, try rasing your Recording I/O buffer to 256 or 512 or 1024. Also try WDM driver mode.

These are some of the things you can try

CJ

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#2
DigitalBoston
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/28 17:04:24 (permalink)
not shure how to adjust the Audio INI file
WMD was worse since i have to many tracks running 
but the buffer up to 2024 seems to help alot i just finished my track
qiuck Q what the diffence with the record buffer and the sound card buffer there not the same thing
i should know this Cj?
and since i have listen to your work i must ask what u use to capture your audio.
my delta card has been faithful but x2 is not likin it too much
 thanks for the input
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robert_e_bone
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/28 17:41:17 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
@DigitalBoston

Can you please tell me a bit more about your configuration?

What is the ASIO sample rate set to for the interface?

What is it set to in Sonar?

That is quite a high buffer setting - too high can also cause problems.

More questions

What is the bit-depth set to in Sonar for recording?

What audio effects do you have loaded up in your tracks?  Some effects, like Perfect Space - are not readily usable in real-time.

My suggestion would be to try the following configuration - just to see if you can get a stable drop-free place to start:

1.  Set the ASIO sample rate in the interface UI to 44.1
2.  Set the ASIO buffer size in the interface to 256
3.  Set the sample rate in Sonar to 44.1
4.  Set the bit-depth to 16 for recording in Sonar (just for this test).  This can get changed in Edit>Preferences>File>Audio Data - then change record bit-depth to 16
5.  Setup a new project and add an audio track, and make input assignment to whatever you are using for your source (mic, guitar, etc)
6.  Now, PRIOR to adding any effects, try out arming the track for record and record some signal for 20-30 seconds.
7.  Playback the captured audio - is it playing clean?  (no drops or crackles)
8.  If it is playing back clean, then you KNOW this set of settings is a baseline of working settings.  If not clean, then something else is amiss and you can stop these steps, otherwise if clean then continue.
9.  OK - so knowing that the above works so far, go back and change the record bit-depth in Sonar to 24, then record some more audio - another 20-30 seconds.
10.  Playback the new audio clip - still clean?  If not, then you can change the bit-depth back to 16 and you should be able to record, since you know that worked.  If it played back clean, then go back to your interface UI and change the ASIO buffer size from 256 down to 128, and repeat the record/playback to see if clean.

What you are doing with the above is trying to find a good starting point - a place where you can record without dropouts and crackles.  Once a good spot is reacjed, you then are going to adjust again, then record/playback, then if still clean adjust again, until you begin to experience dropouts and/or crackes, then back off the last adjustments to go back to settings that you know work.

So, the settings you will continue to adjust will be the ASIO buffer size, the record-bit depth, and the sample rates (sample rates must match between Sonar and the interface), until you find the best set of settings that work.

My recommendation is that you work with the above to get something that works comfortably.  I do not think that running on the edge is a good idea for live recordings - I would think that if you can get it to record at 24-bit depth, a sample rate of 44.1, and an ASIO buffer size of 128, that you should be in a good zone, balanced with reasonable latency and good sound quality.

Please post back with results for trying the above.

The other thing again is to be aware of how particular audio effects can jack up the sound if used in real-time, like Perfect Space.  AFTER you get a good record/playback without effects, try adding some effects, one at a time, and repeat the record/playback test to make sure you understand what you can and cannot sustain for doing your live recordings.

I hope ANY of the above makes sense, and I hope any of it helps you get this working like you need it to.

IF you continue to have trouble, try leaving the record bit-depth at 16 and continue to test and adjust the sample rates and the ASIO buffer size to reduce latency.  It may not be the best audio quality, but you will reduce the load on your system, and it may give you a good stable set of settings and still sound pretty good.

Also, try running DPC Latency Checker (free) and see if it thinks everything is ok to handle audio processing.  Sometimes, things like antivirus software and other background services can interfere with audio processing.

Bob Bone


Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
#4
ed97643
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/28 21:35:53 (permalink)
You won't like the sound of this, but I'm going to give it to you straight. I lost YEARS struggling with a Delta soundcard. Yes, years (about 3-4). EVERYthing that I recorded during that time is complete crap (pops, audio glitches, timing anomolies, you name it), due to the delta. It NEVER worked right. I pulled my hair out, I was on the phone with cake support, I was on the phone with (then Win-man / Delta) support. Both sides blamed the other. I was ALL over this forum. Q&A, advice, suggestions, all tried, to no avail. Changed every possible config setting, you have to understand; I tried EVERYthing. Ya know what worked? I ditched the delta and bought a Mackie Onyx 1640 mixer with firewire interface card as my new I/O, and never looked back. IT HAS BEEN BLISS. Works perfectly, all the time. Stop pulling your hair out with the Delta. My honest advice is to throw it in the trash and buy something else. I only say it because I wish to gawd that I had done so sooner. I have SO many songs that are basically unlistenable now due to the glitches. I spent AGES trying to get the Delta to "play nicely" in Sonar. Here, they will say, "just tweak your config" - yeah. Been there, done that, wrote the book on it. I hate to sound grim, but ditch it. I don't want you to lose as much time as I did.

Registered Cakewalk user since 1995
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ed97643
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/28 21:38:59 (permalink)
It all comes down to drivers, and in my experience, the Delta drivers BLOW. (Guess that is a much more concise way of restating my last post.)

Registered Cakewalk user since 1995
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/29 03:21:17 (permalink)
Spot on Ed!

Why use 27 words when you can use 248?

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/29 03:27:46 (permalink)
ed97643


It all comes down to drivers, and in my experience, the Delta M-audio drivers BLOW. (Guess that is a much more concise way of restating my last post.)


Fixed it.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/29 03:31:06 (permalink)
As already mentioned I/O buffers can make a big difference for playback/recording dropouts. There's no magic figure either, it's what works for your system. If you system can't read or write the buffer quick enough it can't use/read it (the buffer) when it needs to and you get a dropout.

Just experiment to find what works for your set up. It's not something you have to keep changing, get it set up and forget about it.
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DigitalBoston
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/29 07:55:42 (permalink)
ed97643


You won't like the sound of this, but I'm going to give it to you straight. I lost YEARS struggling with a Delta soundcard. Yes, years (about 3-4). EVERYthing that I recorded during that time is complete crap (pops, audio glitches, timing anomolies, you name it), due to the delta. It NEVER worked right. I pulled my hair out, I was on the phone with cake support, I was on the phone with (then Win-man / Delta) support. Both sides blamed the other. I was ALL over this forum. Q&A, advice, suggestions, all tried, to no avail. Changed every possible config setting, you have to understand; I tried EVERYthing. Ya know what worked? I ditched the delta and bought a Mackie Onyx 1640 mixer with firewire interface card as my new I/O, and never looked back. IT HAS BEEN BLISS. Works perfectly, all the time. Stop pulling your hair out with the Delta. My honest advice is to throw it in the trash and buy something else. I only say it because I wish to gawd that I had done so sooner. I have SO many songs that are basically unlistenable now due to the glitches. I spent AGES trying to get the Delta to "play nicely" in Sonar. Here, they will say, "just tweak your config" - yeah. Been there, done that, wrote the book on it. I hate to sound grim, but ditch it. I don't want you to lose as much time as I did.
 wwowww i was kinda thinkin a new capure device would help but there so many and delta has 10 inputs its perfect for small studio doing like drums for cheap/ is there any other 8 input cards??
 


#10
DigitalBoston
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/29 07:57:19 (permalink)
so whats a good card with 8 or more inputs thats under 200 bucks??
 im dreamin i know
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JPPG
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/29 08:47:09 (permalink)
It´s all about buffers
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robert_e_bone
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/29 09:14:29 (permalink)
@DigitalBoston

I put some time into putting a post together to try to help you.  I see that you are  responding to other posts.  If you are really interested in assistance, would you consider responding to the one that was asking for some basic information so that you could be helped?

Please reply with the requested information - right now you are dead in the water.  IF there is any hope of getting things to work (unless that interface really will not work), then it will only happen if you help us to be able to help you, by reviewing your system and settings.

Or not - your call, 

Bob Bone




Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
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robert_e_bone
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/29 09:15:16 (permalink)
JPPG


It´s all about buffers
There is no possible way to know this, without looking at a number of other things.


Bob Bone



Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
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digi2ns
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/29 09:24:15 (permalink)
I guess you have already-
killed everything running in the background, 
along with disabling auto updates,
did all the Power settings/Sleep Modes
stopped Windows from playing sounds
etc...?


MIKE

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digi2ns
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/29 09:28:18 (permalink)
Heres a page from X1 Manual

Causes and cures
The exact cause of your audio problem will vary depending on the configuration of your computer
and/or the content of the project file you're working with. The majority of audio problems are caused
by one of the factors listed below. Read each of the topics below, in the order shown, and follow the
recommendations provided:
“The CPU is being interrupted by "background" activities having nothing to do with audio” on page
1124
“Cakewalk doesn't properly “recognize” your sound card” on page 1125
“The "I/O Buffer Size" may not be well matched to your hard disk” on page 1125
“Mixing latency may be set too low” on page 1126
“Your hard disk may be excessively fragmented” on page 1126
“Your project file may be excessively fragmented” on page 1126
“Your sound card's driver may be obsolete” on page 1127
“There may be a conflict with your video card or other multimedia streaming card” on page 1127
“Your sound card may have a conflict with another device in your computer” on page 1129
“Your project may simply be too "complex" for your computer” on page 1130
“Upgrade your computer hardware: more RAM, a faster CPU, and a faster disk drive” on page 1130



MIKE

--Dell Studio XPS I7/870 2.93 Ghz, 8GB Mem, 2-2TB Barracuda HDs, 500 GB Ext.HDD, Win7/64
--X1 64 Pro Expanded, Dual 21" Monitors 
--PCR500  
--MAUDIO FastTrack Ultra
--Mackie 1604 VLZ PRO
--Line6 X3 Live
--Gibson, Fender, Takamine, Schecter, Washburn
http://pogopoppa.wix.com/5thgear#
 http://soundcloud.com/digi2ns  
 
 
 
 

#16
DigitalBoston
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/29 23:50:49 (permalink)
thanks guys i have lots of home work
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DigitalBoston
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/29 23:53:42 (permalink)
i think by the way some windows conflict with delta and sonar, as i killed backround sound and processes it seems to have helped.
 i post tommorow some better info
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digi2ns
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/30 07:08:10 (permalink)
Great

Making progress is always a good thing  


MIKE

--Dell Studio XPS I7/870 2.93 Ghz, 8GB Mem, 2-2TB Barracuda HDs, 500 GB Ext.HDD, Win7/64
--X1 64 Pro Expanded, Dual 21" Monitors 
--PCR500  
--MAUDIO FastTrack Ultra
--Mackie 1604 VLZ PRO
--Line6 X3 Live
--Gibson, Fender, Takamine, Schecter, Washburn
http://pogopoppa.wix.com/5thgear#
 http://soundcloud.com/digi2ns  
 
 
 
 

#19
robert_e_bone
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/30 11:43:58 (permalink)
DigitalBoston


i think by the way some windows conflict with delta and sonar, as i killed backround sound and processes it seems to have helped.
 i post tommorow some better info

Thanks!  There are quite a few folks here who will bend over backwards to help you with this, once we get the additional information from you posted.


We'll do our collective best.


Bob Bone

Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
 
Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
#20
digi2ns
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/30 12:05:10 (permalink)
robert_e_bone


DigitalBoston


i think by the way some windows conflict with delta and sonar, as i killed backround sound and processes it seems to have helped.
i post tommorow some better info

Thanks!  There are quite a few folks here who will bend over backwards to help you with this, once we get the additional information from you posted.


We'll do our collective best.


Bob Bone

Amen Bob,


DB,  Looks like you have a little time in with Sonar,


Not sure how much tweaking you have done to the Computer itself outside of Sonar.  I think a new system might do Okay but IMO some older systems need things done that are recommended by Cake and other users.


I have found that there are so many things going on in the computer itself that it was most of my problems in the past with drop outs.  


As CJ suggested, Buffer for playback and Record are important as well.


Id concentrate on the tweaks to get it as good as possible before spending any $$$


There are a mess of threads out there with adjustments that have worked.


Id pull up the X1 Manual and go through them step by step and do them regardless just to eliminate things/possibilities.


We are here to help where we can  [;)


Posting all your settings that are listed throughout the Preference in Sonar will be a big help to us as well 


MIKE

--Dell Studio XPS I7/870 2.93 Ghz, 8GB Mem, 2-2TB Barracuda HDs, 500 GB Ext.HDD, Win7/64
--X1 64 Pro Expanded, Dual 21" Monitors 
--PCR500  
--MAUDIO FastTrack Ultra
--Mackie 1604 VLZ PRO
--Line6 X3 Live
--Gibson, Fender, Takamine, Schecter, Washburn
http://pogopoppa.wix.com/5thgear#
 http://soundcloud.com/digi2ns  
 
 
 
 

#21
digi2ns
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Re:drop outs when recording live tracks 2013/01/30 12:21:37 (permalink)


MIKE

--Dell Studio XPS I7/870 2.93 Ghz, 8GB Mem, 2-2TB Barracuda HDs, 500 GB Ext.HDD, Win7/64
--X1 64 Pro Expanded, Dual 21" Monitors 
--PCR500  
--MAUDIO FastTrack Ultra
--Mackie 1604 VLZ PRO
--Line6 X3 Live
--Gibson, Fender, Takamine, Schecter, Washburn
http://pogopoppa.wix.com/5thgear#
 http://soundcloud.com/digi2ns  
 
 
 
 

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