brconflict
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Vintage Tube Mics (251, c12, U47) vs. Clones
Anyone want to see my experience recently comparing some "clone" mics with the big-boys (ELA M 251 (non-export), AKG c12, and Telefunken U47)? This was a recent comparison I wanted to purchase some good clone mics, but not wanting to break the bank. However, I really wanted to see just how well these new clones stand up to the big-boys in the industry. But it was so much fun, I wanted to share my experience with you. Here's my report: http://www.soundporter.co...ne-vs-Old-MicShoot.pdf Disclaimer: I'm not professionally in the industry as a Grammy winning producer, I'm not an Electrical Engineer, not an Audiologist, nor an acoustics expert. But I feel my ears are in good shape, and I can discern very minute differences in audio quality, etc. So, take it at face-value, but I promise, that after you read this, you'll likely feel more enlightened and shopping! Enjoy!! Let me know what you think! Please, constructive discussion only. Thanks!
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AT
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Re:Vintage Tube Mics (251, c12, U47) vs. Clones
2013/01/31 11:42:48
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Nicely done. I'd have loved to have been there. I also appreciate that you put some low enders end there and seem to have given them a fair shake. @
https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome http://www.bnoir-film.com/ there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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leapinlizard
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Re:Vintage Tube Mics (251, c12, U47) vs. Clones
2013/01/31 11:57:24
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Very well written article. I think it's useful sometimes to have a well-informed opinion about things without resorting to charts, graphs and statistics to prove a point. Sometimes we just want to know "how does it sound to your ears?" I thought it was an enjoyable read. I think your point about staying within your means as it applies to mics, and just about any other gear, was well made. It's too often that we jones for that "perfect" mic or "perfect" preamp without realizing just how little it may actually buy us over a more reasonably-priced alternative.
"Surf music will never die." -- LeapinLizard, 1963 "We may never hear surf music again." -- Jimi Hendrix, 1967.
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brconflict
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Re:Vintage Tube Mics (251, c12, U47) vs. Clones
2013/01/31 12:09:52
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Thanks! Yeah, one of the things I wanted to do was hear what all the fuss is about when it comes to the real hit-makers. What is it that makes them so sought-after? I won't argue, they do stand on their own, and it would be hard to mimic exactly the same character, but even so, you can grab 10 U47's and compare all of them with different results. I find that exciting in a way. It also means it's quite possible to find a faulty clone that big studios people are asking to borrow! I doubt that will happen often, but that's certainly how the vintage mics here found their popularity, I'm sure. Clones are downplayed because they're clones. But it doesn't mean inferior. To me it means "modern", not bad. I felt pretty good about my clone purchases, and very surprised at the 22 251 and cv12! They performed better than I expected! The 2247 LE was awesome, too, but not exactly what the U47 was character-wise. However, i do know John Peluso will tweak them to sound more like their ancestors.
post edited by brconflict - 2013/01/31 12:13:06
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LANEY
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Re:Vintage Tube Mics (251, c12, U47) vs. Clones
2013/01/31 12:25:23
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Very nice article! I enjoyed reading it, Thanks.
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Sacalait
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Re:Vintage Tube Mics (251, c12, U47) vs. Clones
2013/01/31 12:48:05
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nicely done! I enjoyed it too! I own an Avantone CV12 and actually bought it from reviews on Gearslutz. It's stock and pretty much my go-to mic for most vocals.
www.pershingwells.com www.facebook.com/pershingwells Sonar Platinum, PC- Intel i7-4770K w/16 Gig RAM Windows 8.1, Solid State Drive and eSATA drives, Mytek, RME UFX, RME Multiface II, Roland VS700, A-Designs Pacifica, UA LA610, Presonus RC500. A-Designs Hammer EQ, DBX, AKG, Neumann, Roland, JBL, Fender, Gibson, G&L, Marshall, Korg, Martin, Shure, Electrovoice, Yamaha, Chameleon Labs comps.
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batsbrew
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Re:Vintage Tube Mics (251, c12, U47) vs. Clones
2013/01/31 13:08:59
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i own a ADK Hamburg, and really like it. cheap. it's a U87 clone. it is a bit darker, and of course does not have the polish of a real U87, sounds more like a u67. that said, since i bought my Shure KSM44, i'm using it for almost everything!
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Freddie H
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Re:Vintage Tube Mics (251, c12, U47) vs. Clones
2013/02/01 12:47:48
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The classic Shure SM57 SM58 is good overall mic for drums, guitars etc.. I'm never mic acustic drums and etc, I have done that kind of things too of course. I'm working as songwriter and music producer in a digital studio, electronic Pop and Dance, film score / TV - music so I basically do vocals only with Artists and sometime a guitar. Both AKG and Telefunken are very good brands. Personally I use Manley reference mic with vocals, but that's is another story. Hope it help!
post edited by Freddie H - 2013/02/01 12:51:51
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brconflict
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Re:Vintage Tube Mics (251, c12, U47) vs. Clones
2013/02/01 13:08:45
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I've never tried a Manley, but hear great things about them. All I do is record bands, mix and master. I'm sort of the opposite on the digital music realm. For drums, I've been using a 57 thru an API on the top of the snare, a Sennheiser e609 on the bottom, 421-U5's on toms, Beta 52 and AT4047S/V on the kick, AT-3031 on Hi-Hat, AKG c451B's for Overheads, Royer R101 for room (Sometimes a couple of Fat-Heads). Drums are difficult, but what I'm doing now, I really like! Lots of tone and pop!
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tfbattag
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Re:Vintage Tube Mics (251, c12, U47) vs. Clones
2013/02/03 15:27:20
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brconflict I've never tried a Manley, but hear great things about them. All I do is record bands, mix and master. I'm sort of the opposite on the digital music realm. For drums, I've been using a 57 thru an API on the top of the snare, a Sennheiser e609 on the bottom, 421-U5's on toms, Beta 52 and AT4047S/V on the kick, AT-3031 on Hi-Hat, AKG c451B's for Overheads, Royer R101 for room (Sometimes a couple of Fat-Heads). Drums are difficult, but what I'm doing now, I really like! Lots of tone and pop! I love the 57 through an API! I switch between a 57, i5 and beta 57. Slight differences only. Sometimes I think I switch for the heck of it more than the tonality. Although, the beta does reject bleed better. Thanks for the article too. It was a great read, and you made some really good and valid points.
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mixmkr
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Re:Vintage Tube Mics (251, c12, U47) vs. Clones
2013/02/06 23:44:00
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I worked in a mid level studio back in the late 70's in St. Louis that was definately old school with the reverb room, etc. It was even kinda out of date back then. We had one C12 and a Nueman KM184 (?), AKG 451 with a couple capsules, some of the old EV666 mics and some other goofy stuff.... MD 421 and a pile of 57s. One LA2A and a one inch 8 track. Custom built board with no pan and about 20 channels. We had one other weird mic...look like a skinny lava lamp in black... don't remember but it had its own power supply too like the C12. We obviously were clueless about what we had, except we knew the 451 and the Nueman, because we paid $350 for them back then...or more. The C12 was ALWAYS the first mic put on whatever and the guy that built the studio and board came up with this mic somewhere. We just thought it was expensive (maybe $750 back then?) because the power supply had these monster cables on it and it was just for the mic! Basically the only vocal mic we ever used as well. ..and always thru the LA2A. We knew they were "pro" stuff because the "big boy" studios used the too...but we weren't hearing the big difference....cause we were just in another league from the guys in the million dollar studios. However...I listen to some of the old Revox 1/2 track mixes we did, and they are quite different from my computer home studio. Thicker...punchier...but the quality is much worse too. That said, I bought a desk before then, that came out of Atlanta and had a history...Glen Cambell's first hits, etc... Langevin EQ, built in Fairchild comps and complete with the mono McIntosh amps for the mains. HUGE patchbay...couple of fridgerators in size... I did make some money off that stuff, but nothing like I would today.
post edited by mixmkr - 2013/02/06 23:45:57
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mixmkr
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Re:Vintage Tube Mics (251, c12, U47) vs. Clones
2013/02/06 23:51:17
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btw...excellent and well written article. A joy to read and loved the pic. Made me feel good too, because I always kinda deep down felt what you said, and glad to hear a confirm
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mixmkr
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Re:Vintage Tube Mics (251, c12, U47) vs. Clones
2013/02/06 23:53:19
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One last thing... I remember the first Eventide Harmonizer that came out and we had one in the studio. By far over ANY piece of gear...that was the top dawg. It was used as much as the C12, if that tells you what all our recordings then sounded like!
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brconflict
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Re:Vintage Tube Mics (251, c12, U47) vs. Clones
2013/02/12 09:34:46
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Thanks for the feedback thus far. This was a fun project, and I suppose at some point in the near future, I'll do another.
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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