Do your keyboard’s BK/WH keys respond the same way velocity value-wise? My A-PRO doesn’t

If I strike the black and white keys of my A-800PRO a bit hard (with the same force) individually (which I do when creating a drum track), the velocity values of white keys easily reach 127 in Sonar, while those of black keys only reach 119 most of the time (I have to strike quite hard to obtain 127). This velocity difference wasn't seen when I was using XP-50 synth (which only showed 1 or 2 value difference between the black/white keys).

I contacted Roland tech support and was told that a difference of 10 or so is within their acceptable range and therefore is not a design flaw. I’m really surprised about this. Is this common in many keyboards? Can you accept this noticeable difference?

(I know this has very little to do with Sonar, but hey, help me!)

First off its not how hard you hit the key, its how fast you press it down, although the two could be related. Its VELOCITY sensitive not PRESSURE sensitive. If the keyboard has aftertouch then it responds to pressure after the note is pressed. 

Most controller keyboards have a velocity curve setting which sets its sensitivity. Some also have a velocity shape setting that affect the dynamic response of the keyboard by zone, i.e., making the lower keys less responsive or the higher keys less responsive. Check your manual. 

Also there is a forum section for hardware and controllers ;)

daveny5


First off its not how hard you hit the key, its how fast you press it down, although the two could be related. Its VELOCITY sensitive not PRESSURE sensitive. 

Yes, this is true. But when you try to kick someone harder, the kick speed goes up, no? (I never kick or hit anyone so I don’t know for sure, though.) So maybe it’s the same thing. Anyway, the A-PRO surely has a velocity curve setting, but it can’t be set separately for black and white keys (tech support confirmed this, too). I don’t think any keyboard out there has separate settings for the two keys.

BTW, no one answered my question in the thread title.
You don’t use a hardware keyboard? What do you use to record a keyboard part? Guitar?

I contacted Roland tech support and was told that a difference of 10 or so is within their acceptable range and therefore is not a design flaw.

So they designed the black keys to produce a lower velocity result with the same velocity as the white keys?If that design is consistent across the keyboard, you could probably learn to compensate by striking the black keys harder, but I would not think it would be a trivial process.


Perhaps they were trying to emulate some particular analog piano mechanism. Do the pianists here find that they need to strike the black key harder than the adjacent white key to get the same volume on a quality wood and wire piano? Analog pianos require quite a bit of different force when playing the lowest vs highest notes, and compensating for that would be a major mechanical feat, but adjacent keys are striking pretty similar wires. The difference between adjacent black vs white keys could be compensated by designing the leverage mechanics of the two types differently. 


Or maybe they did not actually intend to design the keys to work that way, but found it cheaper to use the same switch on both key types, without changing the mechanics of the adjacent black and white keys that actuate the switches. Typically the keys on an electronic keyboard actuate at least two switches that are slightly offset so that the first switch is contacted before the second. The time difference between the two signals allows the calculation of the velocity of the key strike. Some type of contact pressure sensor/stress gauge could also be used, but in practice I think mostly these are employed to read aftertouch data. In any case if the black keys are hinged differently or have a different travel at the sensor relative to the finger, than the white keys, using the same sensor would produce a consistently different result.


If there is a consistently different result between the black and white keys, it would seem to be a simple enough task to calculate the velocity of the black keys differently than the white keys to achieve consistent velocity, or to include that option in the velocity curve settings, so that the keyboard user could adjust it himself. The problem I find with inexpensive keyboard controllers is that the key to key and keypress to keypress on the same key are often pretty inconsistent. That is a much bigger problem that does not seem to have an inexpensive solution.

Thanks everyone (especially you slartabartfast for sharing your deep knowledge!).
 
After my previous post, I discovered that when I struck a bit softer (around 100-116), the black and white keys showed almost the same velocity values. So the problem area was between 116 and 127 (especially above 120). I reported this to Roland, and received their reply with a reason that I think convinced me.
 
Because they said earlier that they carefully check and adjust the black and white keys of any of their keyboard products before placing them onto the market, I asked whether they spent the same amount of time and energy on A-PRO as they did on their high-end synths like JUPITER-80 or VR-700.
 
And, it wasn’t the time and energy that made A-PRO's keyboard different. It was the material used for the keys’ chassis (frame). JUPITER-80 and VR-700 (and also other expensive ones, I suppose) use iron sheet for the chassis, while A-PRO (and probably other reasonably-priced ones) uses resin. Keys using resin for the chassis tend to 'bow' when hit hard, and this makes the 116-127 velocity range of black and white keys somewhat different.
(Sorry if I mistranslated their explanation.English isn't my native tongue. I used the word 'resin' for the first time in my life)
 
So, I think I can now happily use my A-800PRO, because, fortunately, values in the 116-127 velocity range don't very frequently appear in most of my keyboard takes (e.g. organ, electric piano), so it won’t be a serious problem unless I record hard synth stub or lead synth (neither has many velocity layers so maybe not a problem). As for non-keyboard instruments like drums, bass, strings and brass, I don't mind about velocity very much since I can edit them freely without feeling guilty.

(BTW, someone from another forum recommended me JS plugins in Reaper (also included in free ReaPlugs, I think), which can allow users to program and make every black key to get +10(or whatever) on velocity in real time. Hmm..interesting.)

Thanks scook. But the thing is I also use another DAW (Studio One 2). CAL only works in Sonar, right?