X2 MIDI Bounce to Clip moving my CC data around

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sklathill
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2013/02/12 18:50:19 (permalink)

X2 MIDI Bounce to Clip moving my CC data around

A while back, I asked about cleaning up my MIDI CC data in this post: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2768058

I could never figure out why I was suddenly having MIDI CC data in my projects as if it was recorded over channels other than channel 1...

Now I realize what's going on.

The Bounce to Clip is changing all my MIDI data, notes and CC, to a channel number based on the MIDI track it currently resides in and what its MIDI output channel is.

This is pretty annoying. I don't know why this is. Perhaps I'm not using this the right way, but I've not experienced this before in the pre-X days.

I made a little video to clarify what it is I'm seeing.

http://youtu.be/rGgHsm3QHxM
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    soens
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    Re:X2 MIDI Bounce to Clip moving my CC data around 2013/02/12 19:56:26 (permalink)
    Not sure why this is happening but a workaround would be to move it to the right channel pane:

    1) Select the CC data

    2) Right Click the proper MIDI channel pane and select "Move Selected Values To This Lane".


    Steve
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    b rock
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    Re:X2 MIDI Bounce to Clip moving my CC data around 2013/02/13 09:55:23 (permalink)
    The Bounce to Clip is changing all my MIDI data, notes and CC, to a channel number based on the MIDI track it currently resides in and what its MIDI output channel is.

     
    I don't necessarily see this as illogical behavior.  The track MIDI In and MIDI Out provide a way to re-route your incoming MIDI to another port / MIDI Channel.  When you Bounce To Clip, the clip takes on the current MIDI output characteristics (including the selected MIDI channel).  Not too different from bouncing / printing to tape.  You're committed.
     
    Leaving the MIDI Output at "None" (Omni) preserves the current MIDI CC channels after Bounce to Clip.  Just a suggestion.  Maybe I'm missing something in your process for controlling multitimbral synths.
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    sklathill
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    Re:X2 MIDI Bounce to Clip moving my CC data around 2013/02/13 14:21:38 (permalink)
    Well... I definitely wouldn't want to leave the midi output at none, because it wouldn't go to the right instrument on my synth. :)  That particular channel I used in the video example drives the basses in my orchestral soft synth, and I do a lot of orchestral mockup.

    I agree that it isn't really illogical behavior.  However, it's an annoyance that I don't see a way around.

    The way all my synths work, it doesn't matter if the note/CC data is channel 1 or channel 16: if it's in a track that's sent out to channel X of my softsynth, channel X will respond to it.  Synth behavior wise it's not a problem.  Navigating and editing my MIDI data, well, it's pretty annoying.

    Maybe the thing is I'm actually not using bounce to clip the way it's supposed to be used for MIDI data.  If there is a way I'm supposed to use it, please let me know.

    As it is, if I'm using bounce to clip at any point with my various tracks, I have to constantly close and reopen CC tracks in order to see my data, because the PRV view doesn't change when opening up different clips.  Also, I have cases where in one track, I'll have to open up multiple lanes of what is ostensibly the same data (modulation, expression, attack, etc.) because some stuff has been bounced to clip and others haven't.


    I guess another question is, if I (begrudgingly) agree that this isn't illogical behavior: Is there a way to clean up and combine clips of MIDI data in a way that preserves the channel that data was recorded over?  The way I see it, bounce to clip is the way of combining multiple clips of MIDI data into one clip, but it's also changing my MIDI data.  I want my MIDI data simply combined/grouped together, not changed.  I just want to clean up things for easier handling, so I can arrange things and move stuff between various tracks more easily.
    post edited by sklathill - 2013/02/13 14:29:07
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    b rock
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    Re:X2 MIDI Bounce to Clip moving my CC data around 2013/02/13 18:09:58 (permalink)
    First of all, I agree 100% with your comments about the flaky visual feedback in the PRV with controllers.  That's gone on for far too long now.  Second, I want to preface each of my comments below with "correct me if I'm wrong here".  I'm trying to help out here, and have no intention of being argumentative.  There's been enough of that around here lately.
     
    I think that I see where our disconnect is.  My personal approach to multitimbral synths involves changing the MIDI channels at the controllers themselves.  Notes, CCs, aftertouch, pitchbend may all have unique channels before they ever hit Sonar, and they're recorded that way.  Even if I draw them in (or add notes later on), I select them, then go to the Event Inspector, and immediately change the MIDI channel with the destination multitimbral synth in mind.
     
    With another look at your video, it appears that you are drawing in your multitimbral parts.  Either that, or you have stellar timing! (it could be edited).  That's going to default to MIDI Channel 1.  It makes sense that you then redirect the output to Channel 13 for your basses (for example).  I'm assuming that you want your CC messages to remain on Channel 1.
     
    The problem is ... when you re-route everything to Channel 13, then Bounce to Clip, all notes, CCs, etc. get funneled through Channel 13.  Check to see if your notes weren't also changed from Channel 1 to Channel 13.  You may not have noticed, because this was what you wanted anyway (and it was previously facilitated by the MIDI Output redirect to Channel 13).
     
    So, my comment above to leave the MIDI Output at None (Omni) made the assumption that all notes, CCs, etc. were already locked in to their desired MIDI Channels.  If you Bounce to Clip in Omni mode, all of your MIDI data will preserve its current MIDI channel.  I compose multitimbral parts on the same track this way.
     
    Offhand, I don't know of a way to selectively preserve one MIDI message channel while redirecting others (within the same track).  But if MIDI notes, CCs, etc. are already locked to the MIDI channels of their final destinations, then Bounce to Clip (with MIDI Output at None / Omni) keeps them there while you clean up your compositions.  It may add yet another step to your process, but my suggestion is use the Event Inspector pre-emptively (instead of the MIDI Output) to redirect your MIDI channels.
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    soens
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    Re:X2 MIDI Bounce to Clip moving my CC data around 2013/02/13 22:11:58 (permalink)
    sklathill


    I guess another question is, if I (begrudgingly) agree that this isn't illogical behavior: Is there a way to clean up and combine clips of MIDI data in a way that preserves the channel that data was recorded over?  ...  I just want to clean up things for easier handling, so I can arrange things and move stuff between various tracks more easily.
    Please re-read my 1st post.
     
    Also, make sure your synth is transmitting on the proper channel. It will send data to whatever channel it's set to.
     
     
    Steve
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    sklathill
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    Re:X2 MIDI Bounce to Clip moving my CC data around 2013/02/14 19:09:49 (permalink)
    soens

    Please re-read my 1st post.
     
    Also, make sure your synth is transmitting on the proper channel. It will send data to whatever channel it's set to.
     
     
    Steve

    Yep, saw this.  This is a pretty quick fix, so thanks.
    #7
    sklathill
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    Re:X2 MIDI Bounce to Clip moving my CC data around 2013/02/14 19:12:55 (permalink)
    b rock


    Offhand, I don't know of a way to selectively preserve one MIDI message channel while redirecting others (within the same track).  But if MIDI notes, CCs, etc. are already locked to the MIDI channels of their final destinations, then Bounce to Clip (with MIDI Output at None / Omni) keeps them there while you clean up your compositions.  It may add yet another step to your process, but my suggestion is use the Event Inspector pre-emptively (instead of the MIDI Output) to redirect your MIDI channels.

    Thanks for the response. I definitely plan on paying closer attention to the event inspector and utilizing that.
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    garrigus
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    Re:X2 MIDI Bounce to Clip moving my CC data around 2013/02/28 09:29:42 (permalink)
    sklathill

    Thanks for the response. I definitely plan on paying closer attention to the event inspector and utilizing that. 
    For detailed info on the Event Inspector, check out the following video...


    * Cakewalk SONAR: Event Inspector Editing
    http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/video.asp?ID=7


    Scott

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    Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com - SONAR X2 Power! - http://garrigus.com/?SonarX2Power
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