Rick5
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Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
Hi Everyone,
In the Audio Data of Preferences, what should the settings be for:
Record Bit Depth: 16, 24, 32, or 64?
Rendered Bit Depth: 16, 24, 32, or 64?
I'm using the 64 bit version of Sonar X-2 Producer. Windows 7
In majority of my recordings, I'll be using between 4 and 8 tracks and some FX.
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/20 17:01:58
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Record should be 24 and render should be 32. The version of sonar and your windows version (64 or 32 bit) has nothing to do with your bit depths. There 2 different things entirely. Track count doenst matter either.
Cj
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vizio
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/20 17:06:49
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just curious why should render be 32 and not 24? seems to work great at 24 and 24 on my machine. am i doing something wrong? i record 16 tracks of audio at one time, running windows 7-64 bit sp1, 16 gig, 2tb i5 desk sonar x2 a 64bit
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Bub 
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/20 17:10:28
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CJaysMusic
There 2 different things entirely. Where?
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/20 17:11:11
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32 is a floating bit. it gives you more room for processing. I laows have my imort setting to 32 and render setting for 32. Having 32bits will give you a more accurate sound than 24bits
Cj
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/20 17:15:22
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CJ is spot on.
Rendering at 32 bit means all of the internal processing/calculations (with is all pure mathematics) is performed with a higher resolution pushing rounding errors down into the noise floor
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TS
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/20 17:20:40
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i guess 32 is the default value (for the "rendered bit depth)
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vizio
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/20 17:35:11
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thankx cj. really appreciate guys like you posting on these boards. i ll be changing it asap.
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Bub
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/20 17:57:46
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vizio
just curious why should render be 32 and not 24? seems to work great at 24 and 24 on my machine. am i doing something wrong? i record 16 tracks of audio at one time, running windows 7-64 bit sp1, 16 gig, 2tb i5 desk sonar x2 a 64bit The Render setting only comes in to play if you apply effects to a track, bounce it, or freeze it. It also set's the default Bit Rate for when you Export your project IIRC. You want your Render setting to match your VST's processing ability. Most are 32 Bit, but some are 64 Bit. You can tell by going in to Preferences and enabling the 64 Bit Audio Engine. When you look at your VST's in the FX Bin, they will have 4 little tick's instead of 2. 2 means it's a Stereo VST being processed at 32 Bit, 4 means it's a Stereo VST being processed at 64 Bit. We're not talking about 32/64 as in Sonar 32 or 64, we're talking about how it processes the audio signal. There's a difference. For example, Sonar 32 Bit will process your Exports at 64 Bit, even though the program itself is 32 Bit, as long as the 64 Bit Audio Engine is enabled in Preferences. You'll also see a Dither setting. This is used for when you have your Render settings set lower than your VST processing Bit Rate for when you apply effects, bounce, or freeze. It also sets the default Dithering for when you Export. It does not kick in unless it is required. So if you set it, and it's not needed, it doesn't get used by Sonar. None of it's permanent unless you apply effects, bounce, freeze, or export. I don't use Dithering at all anymore. Even when I export. I export all my projects at 32 Bit and create an MP3 directly from the 32 Bit file. You don't need to use Dithering when you create an MP3, and it's rare that I burn a CD anymore. When I do, then I use Dithering, but it's really rare.
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TS
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/21 03:13:24
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Thanks for this helpful post, Bub.
I have never been clear with the dither setting.
I use it only when i export to CD, as you said. So my default setting is "none".
But you wrote that there is a dithering, not only for export, but also for certain internal treatments ; effects (if there is 32 and 64 bits plugs together , i suppose ?), bounce (why, if you don't modify the resolution ?), freeze (the same question than for bounce).
So, i wonder if it would be better to set my default dither on Pow-r3 (i use Sonar X2 Pro 64).
I also wonder if it is better to set the Render setting on 64 rather than 32 (so the render is optimal with 64 plugs and audio engine), no ?
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Freddie H
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/21 04:01:03
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Rick5
Hi Everyone,
In the Audio Data of Preferences, what should the settings be for:
Record Bit Depth: 16, 24, 32, or 64?
Rendered Bit Depth: 16, 24, 32, or 64?
I'm using the 64 bit version of Sonar X-2 Producer. Windows 7
In majority of my recordings, I'll be using between 4 and 8 tracks and some FX.
32bit or 64bit on all... All software EQ, synths stream at 64bit or 32bit inside your DAW. Making an internal rendering or bouncing you will lose quality every time comparing to what you hear in real-time if you use settings below 32bit floating. Also working with recorded material in 32bit can’t clip over zero and it will guarantee you will not lose any quality during how many times you cutting, rendering and working with the audio files. That's the reason why you should use at least 32bit floating even if recording vocals, guitars thru a 24bit converters. With 24bit files and 16bit files you will lose quality every time you do anything. I have now told you the reasons and the facts . Now I can guarantee you some “jack ass” will come say it’s not so and 16bit, 8bit or what-ever work just fine too. I have no interest in that pointless debate so I will be work doing that time. Good Luck!
post edited by Freddie H - 2013/02/21 04:19:50
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Freddie H
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/21 04:14:31
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Bub
vizio
just curious why should render be 32 and not 24? seems to work great at 24 and 24 on my machine. am i doing something wrong? i record 16 tracks of audio at one time, running windows 7-64 bit sp1, 16 gig, 2tb i5 desk sonar x2 a 64bit The Render setting only comes in to play if you apply effects to a track, bounce it, or freeze it. It also set's the default Bit Rate for when you Export your project IIRC.
You want your Render setting to match your VST's processing ability. Most are 32 Bit, but some are 64 Bit. You can tell by going in to Preferences and enabling the 64 Bit Audio Engine. When you look at your VST's in the FX Bin, they will have 4 little tick's instead of 2. 2 means it's a Stereo VST being processed at 32 Bit, 4 means it's a Stereo VST being processed at 64 Bit.
We're not talking about 32/64 as in Sonar 32 or 64, we're talking about how it processes the audio signal. There's a difference. For example, Sonar 32 Bit will process your Exports at 64 Bit, even though the program itself is 32 Bit, as long as the 64 Bit Audio Engine is enabled in Preferences.
You'll also see a Dither setting. This is used for when you have your Render settings set lower than your VST processing Bit Rate for when you apply effects, bounce, or freeze. It also sets the default Dithering for when you Export. It does not kick in unless it is required. So if you set it, and it's not needed, it doesn't get used by Sonar.
None of it's permanent unless you apply effects, bounce, freeze, or export.
I don't use Dithering at all anymore. Even when I export. I export all my projects at 32 Bit and create an MP3 directly from the 32 Bit file. You don't need to use Dithering when you create an MP3, and it's rare that I burn a CD anymore. When I do, then I use Dithering, but it's really rare.
WOW! Amazing!!! Finally I found something we can agree on! 
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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bitflipper
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/21 12:15:34
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All software EQ, synths stream at 64bit or 32bit inside your DAW. Just to clarify, all VSTs process data internally at 32 bits, even if their instruction set is 64-bit.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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John
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/21 13:54:51
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What about Ozone Dave? And many of the CW plugins all process data at 64 bits. Whether they are 32 bit native or 64 bit native.
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Frostysnake
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/21 14:18:57
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I'm a little late to this topic and a bit confused here on one issue...if you are using 64 bit plugs, then it is ideal to set your Rendered Bit Depth to 64? ...or did I misunderstand?
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John
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/21 14:48:11
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I don't. I use 64 bits but my file bit depth is 24 bits. I do not change that until I goto CD. Keep in mind that no audio interface can playback at anything greater than 24 bits. So yo will never hear 32 bit files or 64 bit files. Plus 24 bits are plenty.
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Frostysnake
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/21 21:04:31
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Got ya...I think...that's how I have always understood and done things, John. Just wondered if I was wrong on this and was short changing my system.
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John
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/21 21:13:05
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Frostysnake
Got ya...I think...that's how I have always understood and done things, John. Just wondered if I was wrong on this and was short changing my system.
I don't think you are. Also CDs are 16 bit and 44.1 and to me they sound very good.
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Frostysnake
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/21 21:17:37
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bitflipper
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/21 23:45:53
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What about Ozone Dave? And many of the CW plugins all process data at 64 bits. Whether they are 32 bit native or 64 bit native A 64-bit plugin executes 64-bit instructions, but the data is always 32 bits (as per the VST spec). Even if you use 64-bit audio. Plugins may use 64-bit data internally to hold intermediate results of multiplication operations (which can be the case in 32-bit plugins too), but they must truncate the data to 32 bits before passing it back to the host. Which is why 64-bit plugins cannot improve audio quality solely by virtue of being 64-bit.
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Bub
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/21 23:52:28
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One of the benefits of the VST3 format is it's ability to process 64 Bit audio.
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lawajava
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/21 23:54:29
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This has been a great read. Thanks everyone.
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Rick5
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Re:Record and Rendered Bit Depth Settings
2013/02/22 06:12:29
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Thanks everyone for clarifying a confusing topic.
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